Morgan Ensberg was absolutely horrendous last season. He plays in a hitters paradise, and he was benched for a portion of the season. And his defense at 3rd base is pathetic. His throws often times resemble that of a bowler. He's a great guy....but was very crappy last year.

 

Bad year. Not a bad player.

That would be very nice, but when was that statement made? I haven't heard that one...

 

 

 

 

 

 

If players didn't have agents, you can damn well bet that owners and GMs would undercut the player and incentives and do everything possible to save money. One way or another, one side is trying to undermine the other side.

 

Not to defend the Black Sox, but it does show what can happen when all the power is in the owner's hands.

In a bad year Ensberg was still on base many more times than Crede.

QUOTE(Craig Grebeck @ Dec 12, 2006 -> 05:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In a bad year Ensberg was still on base many more times than Crede.

............along with 18 of the other 22 qualified third baseman in the major league.

Crede's a gold glove candidate every year and has around 30 HR 100 RBI type seasons. Not to mention he's clutch as clutch can be. Not to mention he only struck out out 58 times last year 544 at bats!

 

I don't EVER wanna see him compared to Aramis or Ensberg. The main reason KW isn't talking multiyear extension is because Scott Boras is a greedy sonofab**** and he knows he won't be able to afford him with the way the market's heading.

Joe Crede has never had a 30 HR 100 RBI season and Joe is just as greedy as his agent, not that there's anything wrong with that.

Joe Crede has never had a 30 HR 100 RBI season and Joe Crede is just as greedy as his agent not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

Ha, and he's only even come close once.

 

I agree with whoever said that Crede is the most overrated player on the Sox. He is, by far.

Joe Crede has never had a 30 HR 100 RBI season and Joe Crede is just as greedy as his agent not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

I said around 30/100. He went 30/94 last season and I can only see him getting better but that's just me.

I said around 30/100. He went 30/94 last season and I can only see him getting better but that's just me.

 

Crede's a gold glove candidate every year and has around 30 HR 100 RBI type seasons

 

That's what you said. And that was a lie. Besides last season, Crede has never even sniffed 30/100.

That's what you said. And that was a lie. Besides last season, Crede has never even sniffed 30/100.

Take a look at Ed Sprague, Kelly Gruber and Fernando Tatis' career stats compared to Crede's. Ed Sprague especially. There has been many a third baseman to peak at age 28 or so and put up a 30/100 season never to come close again.

Take a look at Ed Sprague, Kelly Gruber and Fernando Tatis' career stats compared to Crede's. Ed Sprague especially. There has been many a third baseman to peak at age 28 or so and put up a 30/100 season never to come close again.

Careful, boy. FTat'll see you eat those words a year from now.

That's what you said. And that was a lie. Besides last season, Crede has never even sniffed 30/100.

 

Yeah seasonS, The fact that he put up those numbers behind Konerko and Dye and sometimes AJ says a lot about his production. Put him in the 3/4 hole asnd he could go 40/120! Okay, THAT"S a stretch.

 

You see, in baseball, as players gain experience, the good ones tend to get better. Crede is one of the good ones. Hate to break it to you but we're not getting Ensberg or Aubrey Huff. I'm sure you're crushed.

Take a look at Ed Sprague, Kelly Gruber and Fernando Tatis' career stats compared to Crede's. Ed Sprague especially. There has been many a third baseman to peak at age 28 or so and put up a 30/100 season never to come close again.

 

Sprague's numbers are eerily similar. We can only hope that Crede has a career as illustrious as his, ha.

 

Yeah seasonS, The fact that he put up those numbers behind Konerko and Dye and sometimes AJ says a lot about his production. Put him in the 3/4 hole asnd he could go 40/120! Okay, THAT"S a stretch.

 

You see, in baseball, as players gain experience, the good ones tend to get better. Crede is one of the good ones. Hate to break it to you but we're not getting Ensberg or Aubrey Huff. I'm sure you're crushed.

 

And I'm sorry you have such a skewed view of a player who probably is only slightly better than mediocre.

Careful, boy. FTat'll see you eat those words a year from now.

 

lol

 

And I can't believe we just had a Kelly Gruber reference.

It's odd that Crede could hit behind 3 great hitters last year and still couldn't crack a .330 OBP. I mean Scott Spezio managed 37 BBs last year to Crede's 28 in half the ABs.

QUOTE(astralpanda @ Dec 12, 2006 -> 06:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I said around 30/100. He went 30/94 last season and I can only see him getting better but that's just me.

I guess Esteban Loaiza has 20 win, sub 3 era seasons as well?

 

Crede doesn't strike out much because he pops the first pitch up. How is that beneficiary to our team?

I guess Esteban Loaiza has 20 win, sub 3 era seasons as well?

 

Crede doesn't strike out much because he pops the first pitch up. How is that beneficiary to our team?

 

How can you even begin to compare Loaiza and Crede even jokingly. Crede's been with us his entire career and has developed into a legitimate star. I can't believe there's so much Crede hate going on. I could see if it was 2004 but wow.

How can you even begin to compare Loaiza and Crede even jokingly. Crede's been with us his entire career and has developed into a legitimate star . I can't believe there's so much Crede hate going on. I could see if it was 2004 but wow.

 

Yeah -- a "legitimate star" that ranked 121st in VORP (and that's not including pitchers) among positional players in 2006.

Edited December 13, 200619 yr by CWSGuy406

Joe Crede has never had a 30 HR 100 RBI season and Joe is just as greedy as his agent, not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

 

Do you have some inside information on contract numbers that Crede has turned down or are you indicting him based off his continued association with Boras?

are you indicting him based off his continued association with Boras?

You got it. You hire Boras in order to maximize your return, if he wasn't looking for as much money as possible he would never have hired Boras in the first place.

Yeah -- a "legitimate star" that ranked 121st in VORP (and that's not including pitchers) among positional players in 2006.

Well in that case...

You got it. You hire Boras in order to maximize your return, if he wasn't looking for as much money as possible he would never have hired Boras in the first place.

 

If you don't want t maximize your return why hire an agent at all? If they truly cared about the team, a player would just accept what the team thinks is fair and what the team can afford. That way the team could field a winner ever season. And after all, isn't that the most important thing, winning?

If you don't want t maximize your return why hire an agent at all? If they truly cared about the team, a player would just accept what the team thinks is fair and what the team can afford. That way the team could field a winner ever season. And after all, isn't that the most important thing, winning?

I agree. There isn't much more I can add that I haven't already stated in my many other posts on the topic of Crede/Boras/White Sox relations. I don't blame Joe one bit for going for the money, I'd do the same.

I agree. There isn't much more I can add that I haven't already stated in my many other posts on the topic of Crede/Boras/White Sox relations. I don't blame Joe one bit for going for the money, I'd do the same.

 

The whole thing is a joke. Like Boras has these amazing supernatural powers and every player should be a fan boy. Players who leave the Sox are greedy bastards, those that come aren't. There isn't a GM on the planet that doesn't know Boras and his tactics. He gets those contracts because he gets damn good players, markets them well, and works his ass off for the client. He's not going to get 6/100 for Crede, no matter what he does. He can't create a phantom bidding war and create a 6/100 market for Joe. One team will offer the most, and like any auction they will overpay. Every winner of an auction has overpaid, that is, they offered more than anyone else was willing.

 

If you were a GM and Boras walked in and Joe Blow walked in, who would you have more information on and have the best feel for how he negotiates? Any GM that loses in negotiating with Boras has only to look in the mirror to see the real culprit.

I said around 30/100. He went 30/94 last season and I can only see him getting better but that's just me.

In my view the problem with going long years with Crede is his back. He was having a wonderful year until it started acting up. I just looked at his September stats and got a shock. After he missed the first 3 games of the Cleveland series he came back to hit just .129 with 1 HR and 3 RBI in his final 17 games, 54 AB. You may also recall he didn't move well on the field either. When he's hurting its like turning a switch and I think he's a tremendous long term risk.

 

Joe might get his long term deal from somebody, look what Magglio got, but I doubt it will be from the White Sox.