NorthSideSox72 Posted October 13, 2008 Author Share Posted October 13, 2008 QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Oct 13, 2008 -> 10:26 AM) In about a week or two, if the dow keeps going back up, we'll hear the sob stories from the idiots who paniced and sold their stocks and ira shares when they were worth s***. Too bad for you. I should also add... the ones this crash really hurts are folks who are near retirement, and hadn't moved their assets to safer securities. With a lot of baby boomers right at that cusp, I think we'll see a segment of them have some problems, and put off retirement a bit further. That's bad news for the jobs market, BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted October 13, 2008 Author Share Posted October 13, 2008 Major equity markets now up 7% or so on the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 (edited) I decided to check in on my 401(k) today. That was a mistake. It has dropped about 55% this year. This plan (through Principal, who has a ridiculously awful website) just flat-out sucks. We're given about 20 options. Every single one except for one (a short-term fixed income fund) is down 20%+ year-to-date. The worst part is that there's no cash, money market, CD, etc. options, so I'm forced to stick my money in one crappy fund or another and can't take it out to stash it somewhere. Oh, and as a kicker, most of the funds are high-fee funds. It makes me want to smack our HR director in the head. Is there any way for me to take money out of the 401(k) and stick it into an IRA without penalties? Edited October 13, 2008 by StrangeSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted October 13, 2008 Author Share Posted October 13, 2008 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 13, 2008 -> 12:47 PM) I decided to check in on my 401(k) today. That was a mistake. It has dropped about 55% this year. This plan (through Principal, who has a ridiculously awful website) just flat-out sucks. We're given about 20 options. Every single one except for one (a short-term fixed income fund) is down 20%+ year-to-date. The worst part is that there's no cash, money market, CD, etc. options, so I'm forced to stick my money in one crappy fund or another and can't take it out to stash it somewhere. Oh, and as a kicker, most of the funds are high-fee funds. It makes me want to smack our HR director in the head. Is there any way for me to take money out of the 401(k) and stick it into an IRA without penalties? 55%? Wow. The general markets are down only about 30% ATM on the year, I think. I'm not 100% clear on how those rules work, with 401k vs IRA. It can be done when you change jobs, but I'm not sure if you can just move your 401k to any firm's IRA and use their funds. I'm just not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 13, 2008 -> 12:52 PM) 55%? Wow. The general markets are down only about 30% ATM on the year, I think. I'm not 100% clear on how those rules work, with 401k vs IRA. It can be done when you change jobs, but I'm not sure if you can just move your 401k to any firm's IRA and use their funds. I'm just not sure. You have 60 days (I think it's 60, it might be 30) to move accounts without incurring penalties but you better be able to document that you put it back into a retirement - or just transfer it directly to another fund. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted October 13, 2008 Author Share Posted October 13, 2008 QUOTE (kapkomet @ Oct 13, 2008 -> 12:40 PM) You have 60 days (I think it's 60, it might be 30) to move accounts without incurring penalties but you better be able to document that you put it back into a retirement - or just transfer it directly to another fund. For changing jobs, yes. I think he was asking, can he just move his 401k assets to a seperate IRA where he can allocate to different funds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 13, 2008 -> 01:44 PM) For changing jobs, yes. I think he was asking, can he just move his 401k assets to a seperate IRA where he can allocate to different funds. You can just roll it over right to the IRA (or other vehicle) and not incur penalties, but you can never cash out in your own name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted October 13, 2008 Author Share Posted October 13, 2008 QUOTE (kapkomet @ Oct 13, 2008 -> 12:52 PM) You can just roll it over right to the IRA (or other vehicle) and not incur penalties, but you can never cash out in your own name. So, if you are in a 401k at work, don't like the fund choices, and want to just transfer to some other provider's funds... you can transfer your 401k to an IRA at that other provider, without penalty... but you can never withdraw the money? I'm confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandy125 Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 13, 2008 -> 12:52 PM) 55%? Wow. The general markets are down only about 30% ATM on the year, I think. Last year at this time, the S&P 500 was at 1564.74. Yesterday, it closed at 899.22. That is a 42.5% drop if I calculated that correctly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 13, 2008 -> 01:54 PM) So, if you are in a 401k at work, don't like the fund choices, and want to just transfer to some other provider's funds... you can transfer your 401k to an IRA at that other provider, without penalty... but you can never withdraw the money? I'm confused. The second you have money go into your name, it considered income, and you also have to pay the penalities on it, plus the taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 13, 2008 -> 12:54 PM) So, if you are in a 401k at work, don't like the fund choices, and want to just transfer to some other provider's funds... you can transfer your 401k to an IRA at that other provider, without penalty... but you can never withdraw the money? I'm confused. You can't withdraw the money without incurring a penalty until retirement. You can always draw the money, you just have to pay a penalty. To avoid it, you have one company write the check to the other one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cknolls Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 13, 2008 -> 01:54 PM) So, if you are in a 401k at work, don't like the fund choices, and want to just transfer to some other provider's funds... you can transfer your 401k to an IRA at that other provider, without penalty... but you can never withdraw the money? I'm confused. Don't think you can opt out of work sponsored 401k plan. I would also think you would lose the benefit of employer match if any applies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 QUOTE (Cknolls @ Oct 13, 2008 -> 01:26 PM) Don't think you can opt out of work sponsored 401k plan. I would also think you would lose the benefit of employer match if any applies. If you're not vested. Honestly, you'd be stupid to opt out of a matching program even if you could - most of the time you'll make more off the match and subsequent returns on that match anyway. Now if you're paying your own money, invest it in higher return products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted October 13, 2008 Author Share Posted October 13, 2008 QUOTE (kapkomet @ Oct 13, 2008 -> 01:34 PM) If you're not vested. Honestly, you'd be stupid to opt out of a matching program even if you could - most of the time you'll make more off the match and subsequent returns on that match anyway. Now if you're paying your own money, invest it in higher return products. I agree with all of you, I was actually not speaking for myself, but for the person who earlier said they were considering it. Good info, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted October 13, 2008 Author Share Posted October 13, 2008 Holy bejeebus - markets up 10% on the day - biggest one day run-up EVER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 DOW could finish +1000 points today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted October 13, 2008 Author Share Posted October 13, 2008 Double bejeebus!!! Dow up 1000, Markets up around 12% on the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 We are up almost 15% since the interday lows on Friday morning. Dow was up almost 1000 points (futures were +1050). Nasdaq was up almost 200, and the SP was up over 100 points. All are all-time one day point gain records. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 We are up almost 15% since the interday lows on Friday morning. Dow was up almost 1000 points (futures were +1050). Nasdaq was up almost 200, and the SP was up over 100 points. All are all-time one day point gain records. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 We are up almost 15% since the interday lows on Friday morning. Dow was up almost 1000 points (futures were +1050). Nasdaq was up almost 200, and the SP was up over 100 points. All are all-time one day point gain records. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Going for the one day post gain record as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFanForever Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Hahah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 10, 2008 -> 02:23 PM) If I am understanding what strangesox posted, and what you are asking, it would be really bad for the people who are short, because it would become what is called a short squeeze really quickly. This happens when a lot of people who are short, are trying to cover the same things, at the same time. Demand drives the prices up, because there are a lot more buyers than sellers. It would also go a lot towards explaining why we have fallen so far the last couple of days since the short sell rules were relaxed again. So pretty much the last two days worth of rally's have snowballed like you would expect them to do if there are multipliers in shorts instead of just one per one share. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 13, 2008 -> 03:06 PM) Going for the one day post gain record as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 (edited) QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 13, 2008 -> 11:52 AM) 55%? Wow. The general markets are down only about 30% ATM on the year, I think. I'm not 100% clear on how those rules work, with 401k vs IRA. It can be done when you change jobs, but I'm not sure if you can just move your 401k to any firm's IRA and use their funds. I'm just not sure. These options are all pretty awful. The only not-ridiculously-high-fee funds are S&P 400/500/600 index funds, which are all down big for the year. I'm guessing, based on the other replies, that there's probably not a way to funnel money from my employer-sponsored plan (which does have an 80% match) to another plan, do this without penalties and still keep matching on future contributions (which I would funnel out at a future date). I guess I'll just keep putting in the maximum match amount, hope for the best and go with an IRA/Roth for any additional money. Edited October 13, 2008 by StrangeSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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