Don't you realize that having people actually opt out is a big part of killing the system?

 

You call it opting out, I call it exercising economic freedom. Believe it or not, the top half of this country was not put here with the obligation to support the other half in every single way, shape, and form.

You call it opting out, I call it exercising economic freedom. Believe it or not, the top half of this country was not put here with the obligation to support the other half in every single way, shape, and form.

 

 

 

You call it opting out, I call it exercising economic freedom. Believe it or not, the top half of this country was not put here with the obligation to support the other half in every single way, shape, and form.

Basically then your argument is that there should be no such thing as health insurance.

The problem with the Republican brand theses days is that their stars are Dick Cheney and Newt Gingrich, two guys from the past. The Republican governors like Timothy James Pawlenty, Charlie Crist and Piyush "Bobby" Jindal need to become the spokepersons.

 

They need to speak against the Stimulus package. We have spent around 37 billions already. The economy seems to be stabilizing. Why incur on this much debt? The USA can not afford this spending.

 

Now, Obama wants a national health care. Medicare and Medicaid are bankarrupt. Now, Obama wants another program even larger than both of these programs. I am sure it will bankarrupt pretty soon. Private health plan will be history because the government will set prices.

 

Most of these jobs Obama says he is creating are bad and temporary jobs. Summer jobs and contructions jobs to repair bridges and infrastructure. When all these projects are finished, then what. Go to the unemployment office.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Basically then your argument is that there should be no such thing as health insurance.

 

Or public schools, free to use roads, etc.

Basically then your argument is that there should be no such thing as health insurance.

 

Not at all. I am saying the system shouldn't be something required for all, and it shouldn't be something that is government owned and operated.

Or public schools, free to use roads, etc.

 

People can opt out of public schools. They also are primarily funding roads with gasoline taxes, which means people have a way out of that as well.

People can opt out of public schools. They also are primarily funding roads with gasoline taxes, which means people have a way out of that as well.

Public schools are funded with property tax money usually. You don't have to go to school, but if you own land - you pay for it.

Public schools are funded with property tax money usually. You don't have to go to school, but if you own land - you pay for it.

 

It is not one of my favorite things really, but it is what it is. I really don't like it as a justification for taking more money from people.

So the classless David Letterman makes fun of Palin by calling her a slutty flight attendant and makes fun of her 14 yr old daughter being raped by Alex Rodriguez. You sir are a douche and should be beaten with a baseball bat.

So the classless David Letterman makes fun of Palin by calling her a slutty flight attendant and makes fun of her 14 yr old daughter being raped by Alex Rodriguez. You sir are a douche and should be beaten with a baseball bat.

Much as I despise Palin, I have to agree, his stuff was over the line and classless. He is welcome to be classless of course, but, I didn't like it.

 

Not at all. I am saying the system shouldn't be something required for all, and it shouldn't be something that is government owned and operated.

That's exactly the point.

 

The entire concept behind health insurance, or any sort of insurance for that matter, is that the people who don't need the services are paying for the ones who do.

 

If you allow the ones who have a very low probability of using the system, say the young and healthy, to opt-out and keep their money, then the only ones in the system are the sick ones. That drives the price of insurance towards infinity. I'm a perfect example; I've been to the doctor about 3 times in the past 6 years, 2 for knee injuries and one for a wrist injury, both times just having x-rays to make sure I didn't break them. But my employer has paid an enormous amount more in health insurance than I have used. It would be a huge benefit to me to keep the money they've spent on health coverage for the next few years until I'm older and my probability of disease goes up...but if that money hadn't gone in to the pool, the insurance rates for the people in it would be higher. More people would therefore have reason to opt out...and as more people opt out, the higher the costs go and the more people are forced out.

So the classless David Letterman makes fun of Palin by calling her a slutty flight attendant and makes fun of her 14 yr old daughter being raped by Alex Rodriguez. You sir are a douche and should be beaten with a baseball bat.

WTF? What a prick.

I thought Letterman was a Republican? Not that that matters, still a really douchy thing to do/say.

I thought Letterman was a Republican? Not that that matters, still a really douchy thing to do/say.

Letterman clearly swings back and forth, although you can't always tell how much is from his writers. He hammered McCain last fall...but that was in no small part because the only effect of McCain's "Campaign suspension" was to piss off Letterman by allowing the Senator to cancel his appearance on Dave's show.

That's exactly the point.

 

The entire concept behind health insurance, or any sort of insurance for that matter, is that the people who don't need the services are paying for the ones who do.

 

If you allow the ones who have a very low probability of using the system, say the young and healthy, to opt-out and keep their money, then the only ones in the system are the sick ones. That drives the price of insurance towards infinity. I'm a perfect example; I've been to the doctor about 3 times in the past 6 years, 2 for knee injuries and one for a wrist injury, both times just having x-rays to make sure I didn't break them. But my employer has paid an enormous amount more in health insurance than I have used. It would be a huge benefit to me to keep the money they've spent on health coverage for the next few years until I'm older and my probability of disease goes up...but if that money hadn't gone in to the pool, the insurance rates for the people in it would be higher. More people would therefore have reason to opt out...and as more people opt out, the higher the costs go and the more people are forced out.

 

Which still doesn't explain why someone should be forced to provide health care for someone else, such as citizens of other countries. I understand how the pyramid scheme works, God knows we have created enough multi-trillion ones of those in this country, I just don't support it.

Which still doesn't explain why someone should be forced to provide health care for someone else, such as citizens of other countries. I understand how the pyramid scheme works, God knows we have created enough multi-trillion ones of those in this country, I just don't support it.

So then in that case I have to ask the question the other way since you don't support health insurance...what happens to the person who is working a minimum wage job at Walmart and actually gets sick or hurt? Gets in to a car accident, develops cancer, etc.? Just let them die because their job doesn't pay them enough?

You go to the emergency room but you still are responsible for the medical bills. You don't die, but it still sucks to be you.

Edited June 10, 200916 yr by lostfan

So then in that case I have to ask the question the other way since you don't support health insurance...what happens to the person who is working a minimum wage job at Walmart and actually gets sick or hurt? Gets in to a car accident, develops cancer, etc.? Just let them die because their job doesn't pay them enough?

 

Again, where did I say I didn't support health insurance? Quit putting words into my mouth. Believe it or not, economic freedom was probably THE primary motivation for the creation of this country. Sure freedoms of speech and religion get most of the talk, but in reality, the s*** hit the fan over money. I believe that my freedom to economically live my life how I please, without harming others, is just as important as any of the other rights in this country. In that right, I do not have the obligation to support the rest of the country. Could other people benefit if they took more of my income? Sure. But to me, just like in a right of privacy, there are people who could be harmed by my ability to do what I want in my privacy. I could be building a bomb, and without due cause, no one would ever be able to find out. That could harm people to. Does that mean we should get rid of the rights to privacy? People can be inflamed by hate speech. Should we not allow people to hate other races publicly? The country was founded on a different set of ideals. Sometimes people pay the price for them.

Again, where did I say I didn't support health insurance? Quit putting words into my mouth. Believe it or not, economic freedom was probably THE primary motivation for the creation of this country. Sure freedoms of speech and religion get most of the talk, but in reality, the s*** hit the fan over money. I believe that my freedom to economically live my life how I please, without harming others, is just as important as any of the other rights in this country. In that right, I do not have the obligation to support the rest of the country. Could other people benefit if they took more of my income? Sure. But to me, just like in a right of privacy, there are people who could be harmed by my ability to do what I want in my privacy. I could be building a bomb, and without due cause, no one would ever be able to find out. That could harm people to. Does that mean we should get rid of the rights to privacy? People can be inflamed by hate speech. Should we not allow people to hate other races publicly? The country was founded on a different set of ideals. Sometimes people pay the price for them.

To answer your question of where you said it...it's a corollary of your view that people should be able to opt out. If you allow that, then you're rejecting the concept of a health insurance risk pool. There's no way around it. The argument I'm trying to make is that by living your economic life how you please...you're actually hurting others and hurting yourself at the same time.

To answer your question of where you said it...it's a corollary of your view that people should be able to opt out. If you allow that, then you're rejecting the concept of a health insurance risk pool. There's no way around it. The argument I'm trying to make is that by living your economic life how you please...you're actually hurting others and hurting yourself at the same time.

You really strongly believe in social utopia, don't you?

 

You really strongly believe in social utopia, don't you?

No. But I believe that a health care system is a unique beast...because a modern society just can't function without it.

To answer your question of where you said it...it's a corollary of your view that people should be able to opt out. If you allow that, then you're rejecting the concept of a health insurance risk pool. There's no way around it. The argument I'm trying to make is that by living your economic life how you please...you're actually hurting others and hurting yourself at the same time.

 

Not helping is different than hurting. There is a big difference. As Americans we have the right to not help.

You really strongly believe in social utopia, don't you?

 

From the cradle to the grave.

No. But I believe that a health care system is a unique beast...because a modern society just can't function without it.

Seriously? That is utopia at its finest, because medical decisions are taken away from the individual. I cannot see how anyone can be ok with that.

 

EVERYONE can get health care now if they want to make that choice - because mechanisms are in place to make that happen.