The question in reply is...can you back that up with evidence?

 

Since I'm not a scientist, I doubt it. Call it my cynical nature to believe we do far less damage as humans than we try to claim. Besides, the sensationalism of this era is impossible to not notice on all sides.

haha. have any of you been following this NPR story?

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110309/ap_on_...party_criticism

 

I saw some clips of this setup and... it is hilarious. The best part is the NPR guy talking about how stupid everyone else is, all while he's basically been completely duped.

haha. have any of you been following this NPR story?

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110309/ap_on_...party_criticism

 

I saw some clips of this setup and... it is hilarious. The best part is the NPR guy talking about how stupid everyone else is, all while he's basically been completely duped.

 

Seriously how do people keep getting duped by this clown?

Since I'm not a scientist, I doubt it. Call it my cynical nature to believe we do far less damage as humans than we try to claim. Besides, the sensationalism of this era is impossible to not notice on all sides.

So you're going with your gut. We had a President that went with his gut for 8 years. Didn't turn out well.

So you're going with your gut. We had a President that went with his gut for 8 years. Didn't turn out well.

 

I'm not going with my "gut" on this, this has nothing to do with a 'gut' feeling, but more like an educated understanding. Earth warms and cools, both with and without us here, as data has shown over and over and over again. We may be helping it along this time -- a little -- but I expect the Earth would be warming right now even if we weren't here to interfere.

 

And seriously, stop blaming Bush already, which is overused and abused to the point of absurdity. I know you hate him, but most of today's problems were created before he was in office, by Clinton, Sr., Reagan, Carter, Nixon, etc. Believe me, all of Americas problems that exist today did not happen in 8 little years. They were created, in unison between both parties, over a span of 40 years now...and Obama isn't making things any better than any of the predecessors so far.

And seriously, stop blaming Bush already, which is overused and abused to the point of absurdity. I know you hate him, but most of today's problems were created before he was in office, by Clinton, Sr., Reagan, Carter, Nixon, etc. Believe me, all of Americas problems that exist today did not happen in 8 little years. They were created, in unison between both parties, over a span of 40 years now...and Obama isn't making things any better than any of the predecessors so far.

 

I completely agree on all of this. I just made the Bush reference because he was one who went with his gut often. It just appeared from your previous posts that you were going with your gut on climate change.

I'm not going with my "gut" on this, this has nothing to do with a 'gut' feeling, but more like an educated understanding. Earth warms and cools, both with and without us here, as data has shown over and over and over again. We may be helping it along this time -- a little -- but I expect the Earth would be warming right now even if we weren't here to interfere.

 

The thing is, actual models of the climate disagree with this*. They account for the natural cycles and human forcing functions, and they're finding that yeah, we do contribute a lot to the recent rapid warming. You need competing models that account for natural variations and human inputs that shows we're having less of an impact than most models show.

 

*not necessarily that there wouldn't be some small amount of warming now, I don't know. But we've certainly accelerated above any natural cycle fluctuations.

The thing is, actual models of the climate disagree with this*. They account for the natural cycles and human forcing functions, and they're finding that yeah, we do contribute a lot to the recent rapid warming. You need competing models that account for natural variations and human inputs that shows we're having less of an impact than most models show.

 

*not necessarily that there wouldn't be some small amount of warming now, I don't know. But we've certainly accelerated above any natural cycle fluctuations.

 

The science of climate change is in such an infancy stage, it's going to take many more years of data and analysis to convince me of this beyond a reasonable doubt. Once this movement became an entire political platform and huge money making scheme, it became corrupt IMO, and my cynical side (which is quite a large side of me), kicked in...and that's where we are now.

Edited March 10, 201115 yr by Y2HH

The science of climate change is in such an infancy stage, it's going to take many more years of data and analysis to convince me of this beyond a reasonable doubt. Once this movement became an entire political platform and huge money making scheme, it became corrupt IMO, and my cynical side (which is quite a large side of me), kicked in...and that's where we are now.

 

Agreed.

 

 

The science of climate change is in such an infancy stage, it's going to take many more years of data and analysis to convince me of this beyond a reasonable doubt. Once this movement became an entire political platform and huge money making scheme, it became corrupt IMO, and my cynical side (which is quite a large side of me), kicked in...and that's where we are now.

 

Infancy? It's been going on for four decades now. As for reasonable doubt, that's what p-scores and null hypotheses are for.

Infancy? It's been going on for four decades now. As for reasonable doubt, that's what p-scores and null hypotheses are for.

 

You can probably say it's been studied for 4 centuries now...but just because a small segment of science studies something doesn't mean much progress was made. More progress on this science has been made in the last 5 years than in the prior 35 before it. To me, that's the definition of scientific infancy.

 

As for reasonable doubt, that's what having a brain and using it is for.

You can probably say it's been studied for 4 centuries now...but just because a small segment of science studies something doesn't mean much progress was made. More progress on this science has been made in the last 5 years than in the prior 35 before it. To me, that's the definition of scientific infancy.

 

As for reasonable doubt, that's what having a brain and using it is for.

Really, no.

Climate science really kicked off in the 90's, right? Mann's famous hockey stick, which has been largely confirmed I believe, was from 98 or 99. I know it sounds weird, but five years ago was 2006. That's several years after Inconvenient Truth and the follow-up blockbuster documentary, The Day After Tomorrow.

Climate science really kicked off in the 90's, right? Mann's famous hockey stick, which has been largely confirmed I believe, was from 98 or 99. I know it sounds weird, but five years ago was 2006. That's several years after Inconvenient Truth and the follow-up blockbuster documentary, The Day After Tomorrow.

Depends on how you define "Climate science". If you define it solely as "projecting the future using high-powered computer models", yes, because that's when computer power got to that level.

 

However, geologists have been doing good climate science for centuries now. Climate Science in geology involves recognizing and interpreting the rock record, and plenty of that is still done. Recognizing that there were large glacial events, that was over a hundred years ago. Recognizing the repeating glacial cycles happened in the early part of this century. Milankovich did his work in prison in the early part of the 20th century, calculating solar cyclicity based on gravity. Recognizing and counting the numbers of glacial cycles in the Pleistocene happened in the middle part of the century. Recognizing large glacial events in the rock record, like in the Permian and in the Cryogenian, that happened in the early part of the century. Putting those in a Plate Tectonics context happened in the 60's and 70's. Snowball Earth concepts came out in the 1980s.

 

The idea that CO2 is a greenhouse gas has been known probably since the 1800's when the gas and its absorption features were identified.

 

The idea that humans were pushing up the atmospheric CO2 rapidly through industry was understood by the best people in the early 1960's, because they had the early Mauna Loa measurements then and they figured out quite quickly where it was going. They also started cleaning up other atmospheric pollutants (with the clean air act) at this time, once they realized it was killing a lot of people.

 

You have the date for the first hockey stick paper correct, but that was just one in a long series. Kyoto was in 1998, so people have been pushing on doing something about this problem for several decades.

"Wisconsin's not broke," he said. "America isn't broke. The money's just not in the people's hands. It's in the hands of the rich, the people who committed these crimes and got away with it." He held up a pair of handcuffs and looked at the camera.

 

"I'd like anybody who works on Wall Street, anybody who works for the banks, just take a look at this," he said. "This is what's coming. This is what's coming for you. Because the people are going to demand justice, they're going to demand that your ass is in jail."

 

Comrade Fatty is on a rant again. So if you work for a bank you are on his list. Of course you can distract him with the well placed donut to escape.

Edited March 11, 201115 yr by southsideirish71

 

 

Comrade Fatty is on a rant again. So if you work for a bank you are on his list. Of course you can distract him with the well placed donut to escape.

 

I love how that rich jerk pretends to be "one of the common folk" at these rallies and they let him. If I was a poor union worker, I'd be like, hey fat jerk face looking for free publicity (because that's what he's really doing), get the f*** out of here you legitimate rally hijacking twat.

MM just needs to go away.

So you're going with your gut. We had a President that went with his gut for 8 years. Didn't turn out well.

 

as compared to Obumbo?

as compared to Obumbo?

 

It's Oblahblah, because all he does is give speeches.

Don't you dare take away our collective bargaining rights. f***ing disgusting.

 

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archiv...epresent/72468/

 

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/13/nyregion...;pagewanted=all

Don't you dare take away our collective bargaining rights. f***ing disgusting.

 

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archiv...epresent/72468/

 

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/13/nyregion...;pagewanted=all

 

Sounds exactly like what the catholic church was doing. I guess this means we should take away their non-profit status as a union?

http://althouse.blogspot.com/2011/03/union...thouse-and.html

 

 

 

Ah the civility post Arizona is very comforting.

Don't know which headline I like better:

 

 

 

"I can't eat an ipad" or "Nobel Peace Prize Winner Enters Third War"

Former Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty will file paperwork to organize his bid for the White House, he told supporters on a conference call.

 

"We're filing the paperwork today to form an exploratory committee to run for president of the United States," he said on the call, to which POLITICO dialed in. He said the committee would allow him to take the "initial steps" to run for president.

 

The bid, to be announced on Facebook later today, will be headquartered in Minneapolis.

 

An aide, Phil Musser, asked donors to wait until April 1 to contribute to Pawlenty's campaign in order to avoid the impression that he'd tried and failed to raise money in his first quarter.

Link

My new favorite random quote...

 

“I don’t believe that Obama filled out his own bracket. That would have required him to make 63 decisions in a short period of time.”