16 Illegals sue Arizona Rancher for $32M

[mr_genius]

The U.S. government actually tracks these data through its unemployment surveys. It's considered underemployment; when people take jobs below their pay grade because they're the only things available. As of the Feb. numbers, it appears that roughly 5% of the work force fits in to that category. Like everything else in the job market, those #'s are at something on the order of a 20 year high.

 

Those numbers are very high. With the current economic environment bringing in additional workers to the country does not make much sense. Especially H1B visa type employees, even though thats not what we're talking about here obviously. But still, I'm sure there are a lot of out of work individuals who would take a low paying job right now just to attempt to make ends meet.

Edited February 11, 2009 by mr_genius

[lostfan]

Bottom line, those jobs that the lowest skilled immigrants (legal and illegal) take are not in high demand by people that were born and raised in the US.

 

And what the government likes are illegals who do not have social security cards who accept no benefits, but pay sales taxes, property taxes, fuel taxes, etc. etc. If all of a sudden we unleashed 10,000,000 workers receiving benefits on the system, we'd be in a world of hurt. So that is a big fat reason why we've done nothing besides flap our gums and rattle swords.

 

Remember Reagan and Bush's answers.

Can we call those who hire illegal immigrants and pay them low wages slave drivers? Since that's basically what it is when you get down to the basics, modern-day slavery. A way of getting labor for cheap, not having to worry about ethics or safety standards, etc.

[Texsox]

Can we call those who hire illegal immigrants and pay them low wages slave drivers? Since that's basically what it is when you get down to the basics, modern-day slavery. A way of getting labor for cheap, not having to worry about ethics or safety standards, etc.

 

In some cases yes. Absolutely.

 

But you still have to worry about safety issues. OSHA doesn't care who you are hiring. Plants get discovered when people get hurt. But yes, overall, especially for the migrant farm workers, conditions are shabby, and they are generally taken advantage of my owners and suppliers.

[StrangeSox]

In some cases yes. Absolutely.

 

But you still have to worry about safety issues. OSHA doesn't care who you are hiring. Plants get discovered when people get hurt. But yes, overall, especially for the migrant farm workers, conditions are shabby, and they are generally taken advantage of my owners and suppliers.

 

I think the idea is that they'll be more likely to get away with safety violations because illegals will be afraid to report it. They may think they'll get deported if they draw attention to themselves.

[southsider2k5]

In some cases yes. Absolutely.

 

But you still have to worry about safety issues. OSHA doesn't care who you are hiring. Plants get discovered when people get hurt. But yes, overall, especially for the migrant farm workers, conditions are shabby, and they are generally taken advantage of my owners and suppliers.

 

I'm guessing people who are hiring illegals for the most part aren't too worried about other laws.

[Texsox]

I'm guessing people who are hiring illegals for the most part aren't too worried about other laws.

 

You would be surprised.

[Texsox]

I think the idea is that they'll be more likely to get away with safety violations because illegals will be afraid to report it. They may think they'll get deported if they draw attention to themselves.

 

That is true but not to the extent you probably are thinking. Remember some of the biggest raids have come at meat processing plants like Swift. They are heavily inspected for safety by OSHA. Very dangerous working conditions even with all the safety improvements. Basically slicing up large carcasses into primals and subprimals is a dangerous occupation. Which is generally why there are not a bunch of people lined up for those jobs.

 

Field work for migrants is again monitored for health issues. The old days of crapping in the fields and no hand washing stations are gone. Partly thanks to the United Farm Workers. As much as I generally dislike unions today, I do have to tip my hat to there efforts in those areas. Farm work is dangerous for everyone, they account for a lot of workplace related injuries.

 

And OSHA comes into play again with the construction industry.

 

Overall, the abuses are general wage issues. No sick days, no vacation, shorted hours, etc.

[longshot7]

Bottom line, those jobs that the lowest skilled immigrants (legal and illegal) take are not in high demand by people that were born and raised in the US.

 

That's just not true. Who do you think did those jobs before the illegals got here?

[Texsox]

That's just not true. Who do you think did those jobs before the illegals got here?

 

slaves, recent immigrants, high school students, braceros. But more importantly, who is going to work them now?

 

Do you remember President Reagan? His answer was amnesty in 1986. Twenty years later, the same issue faces us. It's supply and demand. After going to US schools for 12 years, are we going to tell our children they can be migrant farms workers? Bus boys? The lowest rung of the economic ladder has been a start for immigrants throughout our history. It is only recently that we have embraced immigrants as Doctors and other professionals and demanded that our children be allowed to work for them at minimum wage.

[StrangeSox]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090218/ap_on_...xIpzUrUQiZvzwcF

 

Mixed verdict over migrants' run-in with rancher

 

TUCSON, Ariz. – A federal jury on Tuesday rejected several claims by a group of illegal immigrants who claimed a southern Arizona rancher detained them at gunpoint, but found the rancher liable for assault and infliction of emotional distress.

 

The eight-member civil jury found that Roger Barnett didn't violate the immigrants' civil rights in 2004, and it rejected claims of battery and false imprisonment. For the remaining claims Barnett was ordered to pay $77,804 in damages — $60,000 of which were punitive.

 

Barnett declined to comment, but one of his attorneys, David Hardy, said the plaintiffs lost on the bulk of their claims and that Barnett has a good basis for appeal on the counts he lost.

 

"They won a fraction of the damages they were seeking," Hardy said.

 

David Urias, attorney for the six Mexicans who sued, said his clients were disappointed, "but I think that overall this was a victory for the plaintiffs."

 

Nina Perales, an attorney with the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund, called it "a resounding victory that sends a message that vigilante violence against immigrants will not be tolerated."

 

For more than a decade, Barnett has been a controversial figure in southern Arizona. He's known for patrolling his ranch property and area highways and roads, often with his wife and brothers, on the lookout for illegal immigrants.

 

The plaintiffs alleged that Barnett threatened them with his dog and told them he would shoot anyone who tried to escape.

 

Five of the plaintiffs are living in the U.S. with visa applications pending, and the sixth resides in Mexico but was allowed into the U.S. for the trial, Perales said. She declined to say where in the U.S. they're residing.

 

Barnett's lawyers argued that his land was inundated with illegal immigrants who left trash on his property, damaged his water supply and harmed his cattle. His 22,000-acre ranch, about five miles north of the Mexican border, includes private and federal lease holdings in addition to nearly 14,000 acres of state-leased land.

 

Barnett's wife and a brother were dismissed as defendants; in addition, another 10 people initially named as plaintiffs were dropped from the proceedings.

 

Barnett has been known to wear a holstered 9 mm pistol on his hip and upon coming across groups of migrants, to flash a blue and gold badge resembling that of the highway patrol, with the wording "Barnett Ranch Patrol. Cochise County. State of Arizona."

 

The Barnetts detain and turn over those they encounter to the U.S. Border Patrol. In 2006, Barnett estimated that he had detained more than 10,000 illegal immigrants in 10 years.

 

His actions have resulted in formal complaints from the Mexican government against what it considers vigilante actions, and in several other lawsuits, including one stemming from an October 2004 incident. In that case, a jury awarded a family of Mexican-Americans on a hunting trip $100,000 in damages, later upheld by the Arizona Supreme Court.

 

For years, Arizona has been the busiest point along the Mexican border for illegal immigrants entering the United States.

[longshot7]

slaves, recent immigrants, high school students, braceros. But more importantly, who is going to work them now?

 

Do you remember President Reagan? His answer was amnesty in 1986. Twenty years later, the same issue faces us. It's supply and demand. After going to US schools for 12 years, are we going to tell our children they can be migrant farms workers? Bus boys? The lowest rung of the economic ladder has been a start for immigrants throughout our history. It is only recently that we have embraced immigrants as Doctors and other professionals and demanded that our children be allowed to work for them at minimum wage.

 

Unemployment is through the roof - why should we allow non-citizens to have a job when citizens need one? This just doesn't make sense to me.

 

also, I don't know about southern Texas, but Los Angeles has too many people in it. Think about how much nicer everything would be if 30% of the population suddenly weren't there. Like that one day here everyone took the day off to have a rally for the illegals - there was no one on the freeways and it was so easy to drive places and go shopping. I'd love that to be the norm.