Future makeup of starting rotation

[ILMOU]

Yeah I know we would welcome him in a heartbeat. I kinda believe that KW went for broke with Peavy with the thought that if we had at least 4 legit starters (2 lefty/2 righty) the 5th spot would work itself out. Man was that really ever good timing that Peavy invoked the no-trade. That whole series of events lead me to believe that KW does really want an Ace type righty front liner. Problem is as many have pointed out no way other teams are gonna part with their Ace (the few that have them) and accept the same packages Towers did for SD. Gonna take at least one more MLB ready propsect to really entice a team to think about it. But the number of Aces that are tradeable are next to nothing. All of this posts are kinda inter-related but trying to stay focused on that righty front line starter.

 

^^^^

 

Yep.

 

Who's are the FA's after the season? With all the money we have coming off the payroll, potentially, this could be a more likely route at this point. Haven't seen a list in awhile.

 

I know Harden's a FA, but too much of an injury risk.

 

[chisoxfan09]

^^^^

 

Yep.

 

Who's are the FA's after the season? With all the money we have coming off the payroll, potentially, this could be a more likely route at this point. Haven't seen a list in awhile.

 

I know Harden's a FA, but too much of an injury risk.

 

Stan, here is a quick link from MLB Trade rumors with age (Only right handed Aces (Majority are) that jump out at me are Beckett (Club option), Lackey, Lee (lefty but with club option), Brandon Webb (Done for season but with 2010 club option and huge risk now):

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/2010-mlb-free-a.html

 

Starting pitchers

Brandon Backe (32)

Miguel Batista (39)

Josh Beckett (30) - $12MM club option with a $2MM buyout

Erik Bedard (31)

Kris Benson (34)

Daniel Cabrera (29)

Chris Capuano (31)

Bartolo Colon (37)

Jose Contreras (38)

Doug Davis (34)

Justin Duchscherer (32)

Adam Eaton (32)

Shawn Estes (37)

Josh Fogg (33)

Freddy Garcia (34)

Jon Garland (30) - $10MM mutual option with $2.5MM or $1MM buyout

Tom Glavine (44)

Mike Hampton (37)

Rich Harden (28)

Mark Hendrickson (36)

Livan Hernandez (35)

Tim Hudson (34) - $12MM mutual option with a $1MM buyout

Jason Jennings (31)

Jason Johnson (36)

Randy Johnson (46)

John Lackey (31)

Cliff Lee (31) - $8MM club option with a $1MM buyout

Braden Looper (35) - option

Rodrigo Lopez (34)

Jason Marquis (31)

Kevin Millwood (35) - Rangers can decline $12MM salary for '10 unless he reaches 180 innings in '09

Brian Moehler (38) - mutual option

Brett Myers (29)

Vicente Padilla (32) - $12MM club option with a $1.75MM buyout

Chan Ho Park (37)

John Parrish (32)

Carl Pavano (34)

Brad Penny (32)

Odalis Perez (33)

Andy Pettitte (38)

Joel Pineiro (31)

Sidney Ponson (33)

Mark Prior (28)

Horacio Ramirez (30)

Jason Schmidt (37)

John Smoltz (43)

Tim Wakefield (43) - perpetual $4MM club option

Jarrod Washburn (35)

Brandon Webb (31) - $8.5MM club option with a $500K+ buyout

Todd Wellemeyer (31)

Kip Wells (33)

Randy Wolf (33)

[Balta1701]

so jeff marquez is officially a bust?

No. He hit the DL for about 2 months with bone spurs in his elbow, didn't have any surgery but is slowly nursing his way back. But really, you can't count on him for anything right now.

[Jordan4life_2007]

The only way we land an established ace is if we deplete our farm; and i would prefer we don't.

 

I don't know which of CR/AP is going to stick in the rotation but im sure one will be able to handle the back end with the other making the transition into a Matt Thornton role, which will be great to continue to have young cheap talent to plug into this roster.

 

Honestly I think in the very near future we're going to be selllers and that previously thought Homer for Dye trade goes down with one difference; we send dotel as well to the reds.

 

The Reds need a RH bat and JD fits it to a T. They like most teams also need a bit of bullpen help; add to the fact Dotel is most likely going to be a type A free agent and you have the makings of what looks to be a good trade partner.

 

Reds Get:

Jermaine Dye

Octavio Dotel

 

Sox Get:

Homer Bailey

Zack Cozart or Todd Frazier

Chris Heisey or Drew Stubbs

 

I'm well aware of the sort of stigma the phrase "coop can fix him" brings to sox fans but there is a reason it gets said; if we want a future ACE we're going to have to draft and develop him or we're going to have to take on a reclamation project like homer.

 

LOL. I like the way you think. But the Reds wouldn't even consider giving up anything close to that much for two guys on the wrong side of 30, who they'd only have control of for 2-3 months.

Edited June 29, 2009 by Jordan4life

[chisoxfan09]

LOL. I like the way you think. But the Reds wouldn't even consider giving up anything close to that much for two guys on the wrong side of 30, who they'd only have control of for 2-3 months.

 

Jordan, Bailey has had extremely disappointing MLB numbers. I wonder if we can get him cheap because of that but I doubt the would fit the mold of Ace type starter. Also he is only listed with 2 starts this year so he was hurt and on the DL for an extended period of time. His K/BB rate is horrible and his ERA is also sky high!! He looks like a big risk as a reclamation project for Coop. Not sure even if he is worth Dye straight up.

Edited June 29, 2009 by chisoxfan09

[RME JICO]

I could see the Sox picking up someone like D. Cabrera as a reclamation project.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Jordan, Bailey has had extremely disappointing MLB numbers. I wonder if we can get him cheap because of that but I doubt the would fit the mold of Ace type starter. Also he is only listed with 2 starts this year so he was hurt and on the DL for an extended period of time. His K/BB rate is horrible and his ERA is also sky high!! He looks like a big risk as a reclamation project for Coop. Not sure even if he is worth Dye straight up.

 

I agree with you if we're just talking Bailey. Now I might've misread his post. I came away thinking he was talking about a deal involving Bailey and two of Stubbs, Frazier, Heisey and Cowart. That's just plain crazy.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I could see the Sox picking up someone like D. Cabrera as a reclamation project.

 

Disgusting.

[GreatScott82]

The DBacks seem to be in unloading mode. If you really want to secure that 2010 rotation and beyond, go balls out and make Byrnes a deal he can't refuse for Haren.

 

 

[chisoxfan09]

I agree with you if we're just talking Bailey. Now I might've misread his post. I came away thinking he was talking about a deal involving Bailey and two of Stubbs, Frazier, Heisey and Cowart. That's just plain crazy.

 

A little off topic but I gotta believe if we shop Dye we are bound to ask for a decent haul back. He projects to have 40HR/100RBI numbers this year and still has the 12 million option for next year which could be considered not terribly expensive for a great clubhouse guy, decent defrense, and the offense. My opinion only.

[knightni]

They need to decide whether or not they are prepared to start 4 lefties in their rotation in 2010, or deal one for a righty.

[Jordan4life_2007]

A little off topic but I gotta believe if we shop Dye we are bound to ask for a decent haul back. He projects to have 40HR/100RBI numbers this year and still has the 12 million option for next year which could be considered not terribly expensive for a great clubhouse guy, decent defrense, and the offense. My opinion only.

 

I disagree. I don't see us getting any stud prospects for Dye. Very doubtful any team is going to pick up that 12 million dollar option. Especially in this economy. Look at what Dunn, Burrell and Abreu signed for.

[chisoxfan09]

They need to decide whether or not they are prepared to start 4 lefties in their rotation in 2010, or deal one for a righty.

 

Knight, that is one of the main points of this thread if not the major one. I believe we should look for the high end (Ace or not but at least a number 2 caliber) right SP to eve out the rotation. I think a balance is important but would have to do the stats game to back it up (How many lefties have we faced or pitched againsts, the batting avg, etc). I like balance.

[Jordan4life_2007]

The DBacks seem to be in unloading mode. If you really want to secure that 2010 rotation and beyond, go balls out and make Byrnes a deal he can't refuse for Haren.

 

Say good bye to at least three of Beckham, Danks, Poreda, Allen, Hudson? I think Dan Haren is spectacular. But the price would be way too steep (as it should be for a pitcher of his caliber).

[greg775]

We won't be starting four lefties. That's too unusual.

I can't imagine trading Buehrle or Danks so that leaves one of the other lefties to be shipped.

As far as the Dye/Dotel to Reds talk, why would the Reds pay Dotel's contract? He's nothing special and makes too much loot.

If we go in seller's mode, trade Dye or Paulie or Thome to somebody who is desperate for a postseason bat and will overpay. Preferably keep Dye.

Edited June 29, 2009 by greg775

[chisoxfan09]

I disagree. I don't see us getting any stud prospects for Dye. Very doubtful any team is going to pick up that 12 million dollar option. Especially in this economy. Look at what Dunn, Burrell and Abreu signed for.

 

Problem is Jordan if he stays this year no issues there as he will have by most accounts a very strong year. But if we buy him out for 2 million then he is free to go. I think based on his numbers he shold be a type B Free Agent. He still has another 2 years left in him. So we get the pick in the draft. Still not bad to restock the farm.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Problem is Jordan if he stays this year no issues there as he will have by most accounts a very strong year. But if we buy him out for 2 million then he is free to go. I think based on his numbers he shold be a type B Free Agent. He still has another 2 years left in him. So we get the pick in the draft. Still not bad to restock the farm.

 

I agree 100%. I'd rather just keep Dye and get the picks. His age and contract status makes him impossible to trade. And he's way too good to give up for just B or C prospects.

[chisoxfan09]

We won't be starting four lefties. That's too unusual.

I can't imagine trading Buehrle or Danks so that leaves one of the other lefties to be shipped.

As far as the Dye/Dotel to Reds talk, why would the Reds pay Dotel's contract? He's nothing special and makes too much loot.

If we go in seller's mode, trade Dye or Paulie or Thome to somebody who is desperate for a postseason bat and will overpay. Preferably keep Dye.

 

Yeah I would rather not see a four lefty rotation. But our righty prospects in AAA are nothing to shout about at the moment. 2011 at the earliest for the AA prospects. Hudson most likely as everyone else has said.

Edited June 29, 2009 by chisoxfan09

[chisoxfan09]

We won't be starting four lefties. That's too unusual.

I can't imagine trading Buehrle or Danks so that leaves one of the other lefties to be shipped.

As far as the Dye/Dotel to Reds talk, why would the Reds pay Dotel's contract? He's nothing special and makes too much loot.

If we go in seller's mode, trade Dye or Paulie or Thome to somebody who is desperate for a postseason bat and will overpay. Preferably keep Dye.

 

Greg there is 1 Cuban out there I have also posted about but he will need seasoning and he is 30 this year so not sure anymore if he is worth it. Yadel Marti is his name but he has good international experience. He is a right handed starter.

[joejoedairy]

the ultimate coop can fix him could be mark prior. how sweet would it be if he could recapture something close to his old form on the south side of chicago. its probably not likely but if we can get him as another one of those low risk contracts if might be worth it

[BearSox]

The DBacks seem to be in unloading mode. If you really want to secure that 2010 rotation and beyond, go balls out and make Byrnes a deal he can't refuse for Haren.

If we offer to take on Eric Byrnes contract, they might be a lot more willing to deal Haren...

[BearSox]

the ultimate coop can fix him could be mark prior. how sweet would it be if he could recapture something close to his old form on the south side of chicago. its probably not likely but if we can get him as another one of those low risk contracts if might be worth it

I got no problem bringing in guys like Prior and Cabrera for Charlotte. The downside is they suck and make Charlotte bad. The upside is, who knows what the f*** might happen, and Prior would help out attendance in Charlotte considering he's a pretty big name.

[BearSox]

LOL. I like the way you think. But the Reds wouldn't even consider giving up anything close to that much for two guys on the wrong side of 30, who they'd only have control of for 2-3 months.

 

true, but getting Frazier and Heisey would be sexy.

Edited June 29, 2009 by BearSox

[Balta1701]

I agree 100%. I'd rather just keep Dye and get the picks. His age and contract status makes him impossible to trade. And he's way too good to give up for just B or C prospects.

You likely will not get picks for Dye. If his contract makes him impossible to trade, why would the Sox want him back next year on the same contract?

[BearSox]

The Reds are fading, and they'll be sellers before we are, so I think the window of trading JD to them is all but closed. Anyway, Bailey's value is going down, not up.

Not really, they are only 2.5 games out of 1st place in the NL Central, and if they can pick up that offense, they could be a pretty tough team. They got some solid pitching, maybe could use one more guy though in the backend of the rotation. However, you put Dye in the reds lineup, and you really improve a ton. Not to mention Encarcion is slated to return within the month as well.

 

A package of Dye and Contreras, plus some cash, would really give them a boost. Contreras can be even better in the NL and gives them some playoff experience, and Dye adds a boost to that offense and adds some protection. Their bullpen has been really solid, and there might be some interest in Dotel, but they'd likely much prefer a starter.