You're not paying for that track record, you're paying for 2013 Matt Thornton. Teams are not going to pay his contract AND give the Sox a good return in trade. Tthat's why Veal gets the better return.

Who do you expect to be better in 2013, Thornton or Veal?

Who do you expect to be better in 2013, Thornton or Veal?

 

Veal.

Veal.

Please confirm you mean performance-wise, ignoring salary completely.

Please confirm you mean performance-wise, ignoring salary completely.

 

If Veal replicates his 2012 performance over a full season then he very well could be. It is highly improbable he does that based on his previous track record, but for arguments sake, say he turned the proverbial corner last season, yeah he could be

Donnie Veal pitched 13 innings in the major leagues since he was signed as a minor league free agent to a minor league contract. What kind of return could he possibly bring that would be better than what Matt Thornton would bring?

If Veal replicates his 2012 performance over a full season then he very well could be. It is highly improbable he does that based on his previous track record, but for arguments sake, say he turned the proverbial corner last season, yeah he could be

Hopefully he turns out to be as successful as Thornton or the pre-Ozzie Damaso Marte.

Edited December 21, 201213 yr by Dick Allen

Value is based on what the various needs are on teams wanting badly to make moves.

 

Can't really discuss someone like Thornton in a total absence of context. We've seen relievers be overspent on and also be not very pursued

Please confirm you mean performance-wise, ignoring salary completely.

 

Was that the original question? I don't understand what you mean by "perfomance-wise, ignoring salary completely." Please clarify.

Still waiting for those relievers who were traded and the returns SS2K.

If Veal replicates his 2012 performance over a full season then he very well could be. It is highly improbable he does that based on his previous track record, but for arguments sake, say he turned the proverbial corner last season, yeah he could be

I'm not saying it's going to happen, but it's possible Veal outperforms Thornton next year. Unfortunately, relievers are so volatile year to year that very few GMs would have a ton of faith in Veal, especially based on such a small sample size.

 

On the otherhand, Thornton has been one of the more consistent left-handed relievers in the game and I honestly think some GMs would be willing to pay a premium for that. If a GM has no quality lefties in his pen, Thornton suddenly becomes very attractive. Obviously $6 million ain't cheap, but if the alternative is crap, some GM will come to the table with a decent offer.

Was that the original question? I don't understand what you mean by "perfomance-wise, ignoring salary completely." Please clarify.

It was, just wanted to make sure you knew what I meant.

I'm not saying it's going to happen, but it's possible Veal outperforms Thornton next year. Unfortunately, relievers are so volatile year to year that very few GMs would have a ton of faith in Veal, especially based on such a small sample size.

 

On the otherhand, Thornton has been one of the more consistent left-handed relievers in the game and I honestly think some GMs would be willing to pay a premium for that. If a GM has no quality lefties in his pen, Thornton suddenly becomes very attractive. Obviously $6 million ain't cheap, but if the alternative is crap, some GM will come to the table with a decent offer.

 

No arguments with any of that.

The Sox were able to get a prospect for Scott Linebrink. Fransico Liriano just got $14 million. If anyone really thinks they couldn't get anything for Matt Thornton, they are just kidding themselves.

Edited December 21, 201213 yr by Dick Allen

Not as laughable as Jabari Parker going to Michigan State.

 

How is this on topic? Weren't you the one complaining about people going off topic?

Still waiting for those relievers who were traded and the returns SS2K.

 

I've given you plenty of examples. I am waiting for anything from you that isn't conjecture at this point. Either that or some comps for Donnie Veal's trade value.

The Sox were able to get a prospect for Scott Linebrink. Fransico Liriano just got $14 million. If anyone really thinks they couldn't get anything for Matt Thornton, they are just kidding themselves.

 

Or trolling

I've given you plenty of examples. I am waiting for anything from you that isn't conjecture at this point. Either that or some comps for Donnie Veal's trade value.

Javier Lopez might be a good comp as a lefty specialist. The Chisox picked him up as a minor league free agent in 2006 as a 28 year old, he was traded for David Riske a few months later. The Pirates signed him as a free agent for just over a million a couple years later, then dealt him to San Francisco who could use a LOOGY for a pennant race. He was traded for 2 guys named John Bowker and Joe Martinez.

I've given you plenty of examples. I am waiting for anything from you that isn't conjecture at this point. Either that or some comps for Donnie Veal's trade value.

 

What relievers being traded have you provided?

How is this on topic? Weren't you the one complaining about people going off topic?

I'm not really sure what his point was anyway. Does he think im an MSU fan?

Or trolling

 

Why are you making it personal?

How is this on topic? Weren't you the one complaining about people going off topic?

 

It on the laughable topic that Rock mentioned.

I'm not saying it's going to happen, but it's possible Veal outperforms Thornton next year. Unfortunately, relievers are so volatile year to year that very few GMs would have a ton of faith in Veal, especially based on such a small sample size.

 

On the otherhand, Thornton has been one of the more consistent left-handed relievers in the game and I honestly think some GMs would be willing to pay a premium for that. If a GM has no quality lefties in his pen, Thornton suddenly becomes very attractive. Obviously $6 million ain't cheap, but if the alternative is crap, some GM will come to the table with a decent offer.

 

In this market a 1 year, $6 million obligation is market value or more likely, less than market cost, for a top notch lefty reliever.

 

Look at the RP signings this winter...

 

Adams, after hip surgery, 2/12

Broxton 3/21

Soria, after TJ, 2/8

Affeldt 3/18

Madson 1/3.5 with another 3.5 in incentives.

 

Heath Bell after his Ozzie induced meltdown was even tradable with minority of dollars absorbed.

Matt Lindstrom brought Joe Saunders and Jeremy Guthrie in trades

Craig Breslow brought a prospect

 

That is just since the trade deadline.

 

 

It on the laughable topic that Rock mentioned.

 

This is exactly what you do when you don't have an answer. You turn it around on someone else. Either stay on topic yourself, or don't complain when others don't. I know you like playing the victim here, but you aren't.

In this market a 1 year, $6 million obligation is market value or more likely, less than market cost, for a top notch lefty reliever.

 

Look at the RP signings this winter...

 

Adams, after hip surgery, 2/12

Broxton 3/21

Soria, after TJ, 2/8

Affeldt 3/18

Madson 1/3.5 with another 3.5 in incentives.

 

Heath Bell after his Ozzie induced meltdown was even tradable with minority of dollars absorbed.

Matt Lindstrom brought Joe Saunders and Jeremy Guthrie in trades

Craig Breslow brought a prospect

 

That is just since the trade deadline.

 

I disagree that the return for those players was "pretty significant."

If anyone really thinks they couldn't get anything for Matt Thornton,

 

I disagree that the return for those players was "pretty significant."

 

 

Just to clarify since, to be honest, there are a crapload of filler posts in this thread now...... is the debate whether you can get "anything" for Thornton, or something "significant?"