Which is why the Sox are going to be looking to the Santiagos and Quintanas of the world, instead of the Lohse's

 

The problem is unless all three of Danks, Quintana, and Santiago prove to be capable starters the Sox are going to need at least one starter in 2014.

Edited February 3, 201313 yr by Marty34

The problem is unless all three of Danks, Quintana, and Santiago prove to be capable starters the Sox are going to need a pitcher in 2014.

And if any of them don't...then Castro, Rienzo, and a couple of the iffier-guys like Axelrod and Leesman, plus the usual Cooper Fix-em option give us a number of candidates already in the org who could step up and take that position.

Going forward, we got Quintana off the scrap-heap. It's certainly not unimaginable that we could do something similar again, for muuuuuch less than $12M/year

And if any of them don't...then Castro, Rienzo, and a couple of the iffier-guys like Axelrod and Leesman, plus the usual Cooper Fix-em option give us a number of candidates already in the org who could step up and take that position.

 

I don't like the odds of the third worst farm system in baseball producing three starters.

Going forward, we got Quintana off the scrap-heap. It's certainly not unimaginable that we could do something similar again, for muuuuuch less than $12M/year

There are already 4 or so of those options in our org, signed this year.

I don't like the odds of the third worst farm system in baseball producing three starters.

When that system already seemingly has produced 2 starters (in addition to a ton of releivers) in the last couple years...it's not that stunning...and probably is a big sign that the "Third worst farm system in baseball" moniker doesn't really have the meaning you're trying to bestow upon it.

Going forward, we got Quintana off the scrap-heap. It's certainly not unimaginable that we could do something similar again, for muuuuuch less than $12M/year

 

What if they don't? $12M isn't that much for SP these days. If the Sox can't afford that they really should do a complete tear down.

When that system already seemingly has produced 2 starters (in addition to a ton of releivers) in the last couple years...it's not that stunning...and probably is a big sign that the "Third worst farm system in baseball" moniker doesn't really have the meaning you're trying to bestow upon it.

 

Sale and ??

Sale and ??

You're replying in a thread titled "Quintana vs. Santiago".

Sale and ??

Projecting pitching staffs is a pretty tough thing to do. The Sox have been better than most at getting guys off the scrap heap and having them be effective for a year or two. There is no reason to think it can't continue.

Edited February 3, 201313 yr by Dick Allen

You're replying in a thread titled "Quintana vs. Santiago".

 

I'm not sold on either one as a starter yet.

I'm not sold on either one as a starter yet.

How many rotations have no question marks?what you expect roster wise is just not realistic, but I think most would take their chances with one of those 2 vs. paying what it would take to sign Lohse. And you want to rebuild but also place zero value on the draft pick you would lose.

Edited February 3, 201313 yr by Dick Allen

And if any of them don't...then Castro, Rienzo, and a couple of the iffier-guys like Axelrod and Leesman, plus the usual Cooper Fix-em option give us a number of candidates already in the org who could step up and take that position.

You're not even accounting for our two best pitching prospects in Johnson & Snodgress, who will both start the season in AA. There is a decent chance one of these guys could challenge for a rotation spot in 2014 if not at some point this season. Finding starters won't be a problem for us next year.

 

The real concern for us is developing a replacement for Peavy in 2015 (i.e. a #2 starter). Maybe Johnson or Beck can put it all together and reach that level, but if not, that's an area we'll need to go outside the organization for. And if we have do, I'd rather have that $12 million to use towards a legit front of the rotation starter than an overpriced #4 starter who is getting up there in age.

I don't like the odds of the third worst farm system in baseball producing three starters.

 

Learn the lesson of 2012.

How many rotations have no question marks?what you expect roster wise is just not realistic, but I think most would take their chances with one of those 2 vs. paying what it would take to sign Lohse. And you want to rebuild but also place zero value on the draft pick you would lose.

Let's be honest, Marty is not going to respond to your question, because he'd have to admit the White Sox have one of the stronger rotations on paper. That is unless he can find all these rotations that have consistent 180+ innings-eaters as their #4 starters and two quality, young left-handers with some major league success as their #5 starters.

I'm not sold on either one as a starter yet.

 

I'm not sold on Lohse as an AL Central starter either, especially at 25 times the annual cost of Quintana or Santiago.

I don't like the odds of the third worst farm system in baseball producing three starters.

 

Looking in our division, the best farm system in baseball can't even produce one starter. The Sox have done better than that.

What if they don't? $12M isn't that much for SP these days. If the Sox can't afford that they really should do a complete tear down.

Well, then you do it after your current, cheaper and somewhat promising options fail, not in advance of it. Besides, who's to say there won't be another Lohse-like player next year? It's one thing to stay ahead of your looming problems. It's another to cause more problems by tying up money when you don't need to.

 

Also, the inability to afford $12M doesn't mean you need to rebuild. That's a non-sequitur. You can max out your budget with an awful team or a great one.

You're not even accounting for our two best pitching prospects in Johnson & Snodgress, who will both start the season in AA. There is a decent chance one of these guys could challenge for a rotation spot in 2014 if not at some point this season. Finding starters won't be a problem for us next year.

The real concern for us is developing a replacement for Peavy in 2015 (i.e. a #2 starter). Maybe Johnson or Beck can put it all together and reach that level, but if not, that's an area we'll need to go outside the organization for. And if we have do, I'd rather have that $12 million to use towards a legit front of the rotation starter than an overpriced #4 starter who is getting up there in age.

 

The White Sox will not sign a top-of-the-rotation starter on the free agent market and unless they improve the farm system drastically it's difficult to see how they will trade for one. Right now, Danks is the realistic candidate to replace Peavy as the #2.

Well, then you do it after your current, cheaper and somewhat promising options fail, not in advance of it. Besides, who's to say there won't be another Lohse-like player next year? It's one thing to stay ahead of your looming problems. It's another to cause more problems by tying up money when you don't need to.

 

Also, the inability to afford $12M doesn't mean you need to rebuild. That's a non-sequitur. You can max out your budget with an awful team or a great one.

 

What I don't understand is how the White Sox are going to get out of this middle-of-the-pack rut they are in without committing to a rebuild or spending their way out.

The White Sox will not sign a top-of-the-rotation starter on the free agent market and unless they improve the farm system drastically it's difficult to see how they will trade for one. Right now, Danks is the realistic candidate to replace Peavy as the #2.

Funny but the Sox have more homegrown pitchers on their roster now then they did when they won the WS, and they traded for Garcia, Garland, Contreras, without giving up much at all.

Funny but the Sox have more homegrown pitchers on their roster now then they did when they won the WS, and they traded for Garcia, Garland, Contreras, without giving up much at all.

 

Dick Allen, I hope your optimistic view of things bears out.

What I don't understand is how the White Sox are going to get out of this middle-of-the-pack rut they are in without committing to a rebuild or spending their way out.

In part, by drafting and scouting better, and waiting until the window for contention is actually gone before abandoning hope.

The thing is, the price of free-agents only goes up. Lohse contract may look pretty good next year even if his ERA is 4+. A top 3 of Sale, Peavy, and Lohse over the next three years is a nice building block.

The term "buildng block(s)" usually refers to younger players who are cost controlled, therefore, neither Lohse or Peavy would apply , however it applies perfectly to Santiago and Quintana.

Well, then you do it after your current, cheaper and somewhat promising options fail, not in advance of it. Besides, who's to say there won't be another Lohse-like player next year? It's one thing to stay ahead of your looming problems. It's another to cause more problems by tying up money when you don't need to.

 

Also, the inability to afford $12M doesn't mean you need to rebuild. That's a non-sequitur. You can max out your budget with an awful team or a great one.

 

There are always Lohse type players available to sign, I think of guys like Carlos Silva, Javier Vasquez, Edwin Jackson, and many more. Guys who parlay a decent season and "potential" into these 10 mil+ per season contracts. They almost never work out, and Id be more than happy to spend that money on a better 3B, a younger catcher, first baseman or any of a litany of other positions where we actually need help as opposed to an older pitcher who may or may not even be an upgrade over who we already have in Santiago/Quintana. Id say that absolute best case scenario Lohse gives you 2 wins more this year than those two. Is that really worth the extra 11.5 million? I think not. Just because you can afford to spend the money doesn't mean that you should.