The Wire is better than the Sopranos

[Y2HH]

David Chase didn't say there was no possible ending. As that website documents, he's said many times that the ending is perfectly clear and is there for anyone who wants to see it. Tony gets shot. In interviews over the years, Chase has expressed disgust at the fans who called for a gory ending for Tony, to show his brains on the table. He's dead, and the direction, context and statements by Chase make it unambiguous.

 

Chase has never said he gets shot. Ever.

 

As stated, you and the rest of the fans that say so are simply reaching for what isn't there. Chase left it ambiguous, and any comment he makes in "seeing it" or that "it's perfectly clear" are just as ambiguous.

 

If it was perfectly clear, and it wasn't, this conversation isn't taking place then or now.

 

Show me where he's outright said this and I'll believe it, until then, keep on reaching.

 

The only thing clear in that ending is 50/50 see him live or die. Yea, that's perfectly clear. The perfectly clear ending you missed is what I said. Tony gets to worry about it for the rest of his life. It was so clear you saw him get shot when it never happened.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Y2HH

[StrangeSox]

Chase has never said he gets shot. Ever.

 

As stated, you and the rest of the fans that say so are simply reaching for what isn't there. Chase left it ambiguous, and any comment he makes in "seeing it" or that "it's perfectly clear" are just as ambiguous.

 

If it was perfectly clear, and it wasn't, this conversation isn't taking place then or now.

 

Show me where he's outright said this and I'll believe it, until then, keep on reaching.

you could bother to read the link I posted where he pulls out many quotes from Chase over the years.

[StrangeSox]

Chase: There are no esoteric clues in there. No Da Vinci Code. Everything that pertains to that episode was in that episode. And it was in the episode before that and the one before that and seasons before this one and so on. There had been indications of what the end is like. Remember when Jerry Torciano was killed? Silvio was not aware that the gun had been fired until after Jerry was on his way down to the floor. That’s the way things happen: It’s already going on by the time you even notice it.

 

Question: Are you saying…?

 

Chase: I’m not saying anything. I’m not trying to be coy. It’s just that I think that to explain it would diminish it.

 

Richard Belzer: Oh, it was? see, what do I know? Were there other things in previous episodes that were hints towards it?

 

David Chase: There was that and there was a shooting in which Silvio was a witness, well he wasn’t a witness, he was eating dinner with a couple of hookers and with some other guy who got hit and there was some visual stuff that went on there which sort of amplified Tony’s remark to Bacala about you know “you don’t know its happened” or “you won’t know it happened when it hits you”. That’s about it.

there's multiple quotes like that from Chase over the years.

 

the bell on the door rings, and the camera cuts to a first-person POV from Tony. The last cut, we hear the bell ring and then it goes black. Tony's been shot, you're looking from his POV. It happens so fast you don't even realize it.

 

edit: I first watched the series after it had already aired in entirety and knew about the cut-to-black ending. The first time I watched it, I didn't have an opinion one way or the other. It was after re-watching the series this winter and reading through that site that I became convinced beyond any reasonable doubt that Tony was shot.

Edited July 2, 2013 by StrangeSox

[Y2HH]

you could bother to read the link I posted where he pulls out many quotes from Chase over the years.

 

And none are definitive.

 

You should buy the jump to conclusions mat he's probably selling while you're at it. I know you want to believe all this crap, but any tv show or movie that requires outside comments from the makers to come to "possible" conclusions, well, sucks. Because it wasn't part of the story. Therefore it wasn't "clear", or outside comments "over the years" from the makers wouldn't be necessary to piece together a conclusions

 

f***ing rediculous.

[Y2HH]

there's multiple quotes like that from Chase over the years.

 

the bell on the door rings, and the camera cuts to a first-person POV from Tony. The last cut, we hear the bell ring and then it goes black. Tony's been shot, you're looking from his POV. It happens so fast you don't even realize it.

 

edit: I first watched the series after it had already aired in entirety and knew about the cut-to-black ending. The first time I watched it, I didn't have an opinion one way or the other. It was after re-watching the series this winter and reading through that site that I became convinced beyond any reasonable doubt that Tony was shot.

 

Having to piece together out of story quotes over the years to come to a conclusion on a story is 1) bad storytelling and 2) weak as hell.

[StrangeSox]

And none are definitive.

 

You should buy the jump to conclusions mat he's probably selling while you're at it. I know you want to believe all this crap, but any tv show or movie that requires outside comments from the makers to come to "possible" conclusions, well, sucks. Because it wasn't part of the story. Therefore it wasn't "clear", or outside comments "over the years" from the makers wouldn't be necessary to piece together a conclusions

 

f***ing rediculous.

It's not necessary, it only confirms it beyond any doubt. The website I provided breaks down in-show clues and the artistic/direction choices that make the ending clear.

 

Having to piece together out of story quotes over the years to come to a conclusion on a story is 1) bad storytelling and 2) weak as hell.

 

 

that's not what's going on but I see you're in one of your "absolutely not going to budge" moods.

Edited July 2, 2013 by StrangeSox

[Y2HH]

Having to piece together out of story quotes over the years to come to a conclusion on a story is 1) bad storytelling and 2) weak as hell.

 

He also says I'm not saying anything. Because that makes it perfectly clear. Dumb. He wanted to make a movie to pocket more cash someday. I wouldn't be surprised if he's suddenly very open about a definitive ending now that he died. Now it won't be I'm not saying anything, but this is exactly what I'm saying. Give it time.

[Y2HH]

It's not necessary, it only confirms it beyond any doubt. The website I provided breaks down in-show clues and the artistic/direction choices that make the ending clear.

 

 

 

 

that's not what's going on but I see you're in one of your "absolutely not going to budge" moods.

 

The "website you provided" is a fanboys blog. Not a definitive Chase tells us the ending in no uncertain terms encyclopedia.

 

And that's exactly what's going on or you wouldn't be posing links to blogs that do exactly that. You are reading out of story, real life interviews to piece together a *possible* conclusion. And then denying you're doing so.

 

Keep on reaching for your not there ending, that's so definitive half the people that watched it disagree.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Y2HH

[StrangeSox]

The "website you provided" is a fanboys blog. Not a definitive Chase tells us the ending in no uncertain terms encyclopedia.

yeah cool good thing I never said otherwise, but if you have no interest in reading a pretty detailed critical review of the ending suit yourself

[Y2HH]

yeah cool good thing I never said otherwise, but if you have no interest in reading a pretty detailed critical review of the ending suit yourself

 

Again, you are reading out of story, real life interviews to piece together a *possible* conclusion to something that happened on a tv show, and then denying you're doing so.

 

There was nothing clear or conclusive about that ending. If it was, I wouldn't have to read some blog about a decades worth of out of story interviews for it to become clear.

[StrangeSox]

Again, you are reading out of story, real life interviews to piece together a *possible* conclusion to something that happened on a tv show, and then denying you're doing so.

 

That's not what is going on there. Honestly, just go read it. Even if you ultimately disagree, you may appreciate some of the things going on in that episode more after it.

 

There was nothing clear or conclusive about that ending. If it was, I wouldn't have to read some blog about a decades worth of out of story interviews for it to become clear.

 

In retrospect, it was very clear. There's nothing wrong with reading literary or film criticism after-the-fact to get a better understanding and appreciation of something, especially if you're not personally knowledgeable in picking up subtle visual and directorial clues. I sure as hell didn't pick up on it in the first watching, but it really is all there if you go back, and it's all there in the show, nothing real-world needed.

 

Something can certainly be said for Chase making the ending too opaque for most people on a first-view and for requiring a level of attention to detail and subtly not usually required in any TV show and not previously on the Sopranos. If so many people have failed to get the true nature of the ending, then he's failed in some part in communicating that. But I still think, even on first viewing and especially now, it's a good and appropriate ending to the show.

[Brian]

I think this is what Chase wanted. Guys on the Internet arguing about it for years to come.

[Y2HH]

I think this is what Chase wanted. Guys on the Internet arguing about it for years to come.

 

I also think he left it open ended just in case they decided to continue it down the line in the form of a movie, but now that Gandolfini died, that won't be happening. Now that his lead character is unavailable, I wonder if he'll continue to leave things as they were, along the lines of him saying things like, "I'm just saying, but I'm not saying anything...", or if he will start becoming more up front about his actual intended ending.

 

I watch a TV show from beginning to end to SEE an ending, which is why this one disappointed me. In storytelling form, open ended finishes are a bit more fitting...but when I'm watching something that was written strictly for the screen, forgive me for wanting to *see* it.

 

Personally, I think Chase WANTED to kill him but didn't want to show it just in case they wanted to continue it someday. After all, money talks. That's why they went with the "lights out" flawed ending. And by flawed, what I mean is, it was filmed in the first person, so you -- the viewer -- were Tony Soprano, so when he was shot, the lights went out. The issue with that is the rest of the series wasn't filmed this way. If the whole show was shot first person, this would make a lot more sense. And I think this is why it confused people. It was a breakdown in film logic.

 

Also...reusing the A Bronx Tale finish is meh anyway. And at least in Goodfellas and A Bronx Tale, they showed it.

[Joxer_Daly]

My confession is that I've never seen a single episode of The Wire.

 

It's somewhere on my to-do list.

[Y2HH]

My confession is that I've never seen a single episode of The Wire.

 

It's somewhere on my to-do list.

 

Neither have I.

[RockRaines]

My confession is that I've never seen a single episode of The Wire.

 

It's somewhere on my to-do list.

Started it yesterday, so far so good.

[RockRaines]

Oh and although it wasnt a nice "wrap it up ending" I liked the open-ended version of the Sopranos series.

[Jenksismyhero]

I don't understand how people think it was open ended. That's people wanting to believe that Tony continued to win at life. The entire last season/last few episodes were devoted to "when you get whacked, everything goes silent." And that's exactly what happened.

[Joxer_Daly]

Ok, so, if I was going to watch all the episodes of the Sopranos or The Wire from start to finish, which show should I do first. I've only ever seen a very few episodes of the Sopranos too.

[Steve9347]

I don't understand how people think it was open ended. That's people wanting to believe that Tony continued to win at life. The entire last season/last few episodes were devoted to "when you get whacked, everything goes silent." And that's exactly what happened.

Well, with Meadow running up to the door, they also hinted that it could have just been her walking in - but yeah, there's no reason to have such a ridiculously abrupt ending without assuming the man was shot and lights out.

[Jenksismyhero]

Ok, so, if I was going to watch all the episodes of the Sopranos or The Wire from start to finish, which show should I do first. I've only ever seen a very few episodes of the Sopranos too.

 

I would say The Wire.

[StrangeSox]

Well, with Meadow running up to the door, they also hinted that it could have just been her walking in - but yeah, there's no reason to have such a ridiculously abrupt ending without assuming the man was shot and lights out.

It was just her walking in, which distracted Tony from the Members Only Jacket guy walking out of the bathroom.

[farmteam]

Neither have I.

Got you both beat. Never seen a single episode of the Wire OR the Sopranos.

 

And to really piss you all off, I've only seen the first few episodes of Breaking Bad.

[Brian]

I lean towards the Tony was killed ending, but who would've done it? I haven't see the finale since it aired so my memory would be rusty.

[Steve9347]

http://masterofsopranos.wordpress.com/the-...ion-of-the-end/

 

It's pretty well pieced together here. Tony got shot in the brain. Anyone who argues is just ignoring hard evidence.