Marty34 Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 26, 2014 -> 03:49 PM) Why do you want to block Beck? Winning an argument is tough against you Balta. I have to give you that grudging respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 26, 2014 -> 01:48 PM) Again, in the Abreu thread, you said if he was a bust, $60 million wasn't going to harm the team. At least be consistent. The fact that the Sox were in on Tanaka tells you all you really need to know about their finances. Apparently JR WAS WILLING TO THROW MONEY AT HIS PROBLEMS. He threw $68 million at Abreu and in total was probably willing to go twice as much for Tanaka. You never read my response when you say this. Please read the following: NO ONE IS AGAINST SPENDING MONEY EVERYONE IS AGAINST SPENDING MONEY ON STUPID, RISKY, LOW UPSIDE DEALS Jose Abreu's contract was smart because he is being paid like a LEAGUE AVERAGE PLAYER. Ergo, his contract is easier to tolerate if it busts. An investment in talent with upside is good. The downside is limited, in context. You are the ONLY one who thinks I said that $68m doesn't matter. Truthfully, I don't even think you really think that's what I said, I think you just like to disagree with everything I post. Ervin Santana (and every other old, dead cat bounce, injury prone, flash in the pan, etc.) is a BAD INVESTMENT because there's limited or no upside, he/they are being paid like STARS instead of league-average players, and thus come with MORE downside. This is risky. This is bad. I don't know how else to explain this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Mar 26, 2014 -> 03:57 PM) You never read my response when you say this. Please read the following: NO ONE IS AGAINST SPENDING MONEY EVERYONE IS AGAINST SPENDING MONEY ON STUPID, RISKY, LOW UPSIDE DEALS Jose Abreu's contract was smart because he is being paid like a LEAGUE AVERAGE PLAYER. Ergo, his contract is easier to tolerate if it busts. An investment in talent with upside is good. The downside is limited, in context. You are the ONLY one who thinks I said that $68m doesn't matter. Truthfully, I don't even think you really think that's what I said, I think you just like to disagree with everything I post. Ervin Santana (and every other old, dead cat bounce, injury prone, flash in the pan, etc.) is a BAD INVESTMENT because there's limited or no upside, he/they are being paid like STARS instead of league-average players, and thus come with MORE downside. This is risky. This is bad. I don't know how else to explain this. Ervin Santana and Ubaldo Jiminez are making roughly the same salary per year as Abreau. How are they being paid like stars and Abreau is being paid like a league average player? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 26, 2014 -> 04:11 PM) Ervin Santana and Ubaldo Jiminez are making roughly the same salary per year as Abreau. How are they being paid like stars and Abreau is being paid like a league average player? If you consider $2-4 million dollars per year "roughly the same," then yeah, it's not much difference. Santana at $14.1m, and Ubaldo at $12.5m AAV. If the Sox got Santana, I'd assume it would be at the same price since it was essentially just "choose your team" for him. You figure the Sox would beat the Orioles offer at $13m AAV at the minimum to get him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 26, 2014 -> 02:53 PM) (I actually can see a scenario where this happens...if Gillaspie has a really solid year, maybe adds 4-5 more HR and pushes his all-around performance upwards, since he's a lefty he'll fit the lineup a lot better than Davidson and we'll have a real bugger on our hand. Trade the established player who fits the lineup better, or trade the more talented guy who might need more development time, is RH in a lineup loaded with righties, and is higher risk due to strikeouts. Again, that presupposes Gillaspie shows solid improvement this season, which I stress is just a scenario, not an expectation or guarantee) I thought you were B, what happened? Actually, if that were to occur, the solution might be to move one of them to DH...depending on how bad Davidson's defense is, and/or to move one of them to LF, although that's Josh Fields territory. You have a feeling Conor COULD be okay out there, but I wouldn't bet on it. (This is assuming that DeAza was traded or Viciedo underperformed). Of course, there's the equal possibility of moving Micah Johnson off of 2B (to LF) if they decide Semien's not suited for major league SS and/or that Micah Johnson can't make enough improvement to play second at least average defensively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 FWIW, Abreu is projected by most to be an All-Star/MVP-caliber player, at worst to be Paul Konerko Lite. Nobody's expecting that out of any of those free agent pitchers. He's a true impact player...versus rotation filler. And he's in the very prime of his career. That's why comparing AAV of contracts is meaningless, especially against veteran pitchers with tons of wear and tear on their arms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 26, 2014 -> 03:42 PM) Headley and Sandoval make far less sense than Jimenez in my view. I don't see why you'd want to block Davidson. We need another bat next season as the DH spot will be open. Sandoval could either DH or 1B, Davidson is a considered a marginal defender at 3B and could be a candidate to move to either DH or 1B. I think if you have have Headley, Abreu, and Davidson to fill the three spots in whichever arrangement, the Sox are a better team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Mar 27, 2014 -> 08:02 AM) We need another bat next season as the DH spot will be open. Sandoval could either DH or 1B, Davidson is a considered a marginal defender at 3B and could be a candidate to move to either DH or 1B. I think if you have have Headley, Abreu, and Davidson to fill the three spots in whichever arrangement, the Sox are a better team. Generally not a great idea to buy a free agent coming off a great contract season...you end up overpaying 90-95% of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 26, 2014 -> 04:20 PM) FWIW, Abreu is projected by most to be an All-Star/MVP-caliber player, at worst to be Paul Konerko Lite. 'projected by most'? ...i think it's more like...people believe his ceiling is super high. But there is a ton of mystery with him to say the least. He's careful at the plate which costs him bat speed youd find with other all-star 1B stars. There is no shame in that but i'm expecting all-star or near all-star.......as MVP caliber, considering his position & defense as well, is quite the high expectation. Edited March 27, 2014 by Jose Paniagua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Mar 27, 2014 -> 10:30 AM) 'projected by most'? ...i think it's more like...people believe his ceiling is super high. But there is a ton of mystery with him to say the least. He's careful at the plate which costs him bat speed youd find with other all-star 1B stars. There is no shame in that but i'm expecting all-star or near all-star.......as MVP caliber, considering his position & defense as well, is quite the high expectation. If you can hit, it doesn't matter how bad you field. Ask Miguel Cabrera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 27, 2014 -> 09:32 AM) If you can hit, it doesn't matter how bad you field. Ask Miguel Cabrera. Well that then brings up whether we're talking MVP Caliber as in 'what you have to do to win it from the voters' or 'what you have to do to earn it' also the example youre issuing is a few-times-per-lifetime hitter. a 1b type guy has to be unreal-good to be mvp-earning-caliber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Mar 27, 2014 -> 10:34 AM) Well that then brings up whether we're talking MVP Caliber as in 'what you have to do to win it from the voters' or 'what you have to do to earn it' also the example youre issuing is a few-times-per-lifetime hitter. a 1b type guy has to be unreal-good to be mvp-earning-caliber Defense is only brought into account when the person is a premium position player, or if there is no one blowing away the field offensively.. Jason Giambi and Frank Thomas were never worth a damn as fielders. You can go through the historical list and find many more too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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