Another Movie Theatre Shooting

[Balta1701]

The most likely cause of someone driving under the influence of something is alcohol. The only way to prevent that is to get rid of alcohol. Thanks for your support.

 

Also, the second most common form of suicide is medications. The only way to prevent that is to stop selling any medications without a prescription. Thanks for your support there too!

I'm ok with making owning a gun at home 100% as legal as driving under the influence.

[illinilaw08]

I think this is all 100% reasonable, but people have been able to conceal and carry in most states (now all states) legally for quite awhile now. So while we're hearing more and more about random incidents, you can't really say that people carrying and feeling emboldened to act are causing more incidents.

 

That's a fair point. I should clarify that this argument is more in response to the Open Carry guys and to the idea that conceal and carry should be made easier - not more difficult - to obtain.

 

 

[ChiSox_Sonix]

I'm ok with making owning a gun at home 100% as legal as driving under the influence.

 

Great. You missed (ignored) the point completely however.

[Balta1701]

Great. You missed (ignored) the point completely however.

One of those things that kills a lot of people is legal. One of them is not. Both are incredibly irresponsible and lead to huge numbers of dead people.

 

"If we ban drunk driving, only the criminals will drive drunk!".

[southsider2k5]

One of those things that kills a lot of people is legal. One of them is not. Both are incredibly irresponsible and lead to huge numbers of dead people.

 

"If we ban drunk driving, only the criminals will drive drunk!".

 

Actually they are remarkably similar. Drinking is a legal activity. Guns are a legal activity. Misuse of alcohol is illegal in many forms. Misuse of guns in many forms is illegal. Shooting people is illegal (with a very few exceptions), as is driving drunk.

 

The other side is that we did ban alcohol for a period of time, and that worked out remarkably similar to how all of our gun laws have worked out.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

One of those things that kills a lot of people is legal. One of them is not. Both are incredibly irresponsible and lead to huge numbers of dead people.

 

"If we ban drunk driving, only the criminals will drive drunk!".

 

I know. It's very sad the number of lives that have been lost because of alcohol. It's morally reprehensible that bars are allowed to stay open.

[Jenksismyhero]

One of those things that kills a lot of people is legal. One of them is not. Both are incredibly irresponsible and lead to huge numbers of dead people.

 

"If we ban drunk driving, only the criminals will drive drunk!".

 

You have such a perverse perspective on guns. Did someone in your family get killed in a tragic accident or something? Is there some personal issue there?

[Balta1701]

You have such a perverse perspective on guns. Did someone in your family get killed in a tragic accident or something? Is there some personal issue there?

The idea that 30,000+ people die in the U.S. every year from guns and this is ok and we should do nothing about it seems unbelievably perverse to me.

 

Over the past 30 years, we've made cars safer and cut the casualty rate per year in auto deaths by 1/2, while the gun death rate has stayed basically constant. In 2015, it's likely that more Americans will die from guns than from auto accidents.

 

Doing nothing about this problem seems like an incredibly perverse perspective.

[Jenksismyhero]

The idea that 30,000+ people die in the U.S. every year from guns and this is ok and we should do nothing about it seems unbelievably perverse to me.

 

Over the past 30 years, we've made cars safer and cut the casualty rate per year in auto deaths by 1/2, while the gun death rate has stayed basically constant. In 2015, it's likely that more Americans will die from guns than from auto accidents.

 

Doing nothing about this problem seems like an incredibly perverse perspective.

 

"Do nothing about it" to "ban guns" is a pretty big leap.

 

edit: also:

 

 

 

 

Edited July 24, 2015 by Jenksismybitch

[GoSox05]

3.6 per 100,000 is still really high. Most other countries are well under 1.

 

 

Germany is at 0.20.

[Balta1701]

 

Firearm deaths go up even as fewer people own guns. Automobile deaths go down even as more people own cars.

 

Edit:

The trick in your plots, btw, is that they're normalized to "number of guns". A sliver of the population is stockpiling them while the portion of the population smart enough to not drink and drive keep a killing tool in the home is going down. Even though fewer people are owning guns, the number of people they kill per year is going up.

[Jenksismyhero]

3.6 per 100,000 is still really high. Most other countries are well under 1.

 

 

Germany is at 0.20.

 

Take out the gang killings and what would it look like I wonder.

 

[bmags]

Take out the gang killings and what would it look like I wonder.

 

Why does this matter?

[Jenksismyhero]

 

Firearm deaths go up even as fewer people own guns. Automobile deaths go down even as more people own cars.

 

Edit:

The trick in your plots, btw, is that they're normalized to "number of guns". A sliver of the population is stockpiling them while the portion of the population smart enough to not drink and drive keep a killing tool in the home is going down. Even though fewer people are owning guns, the number of people they kill per year is going up.

 

Marginally. But you still have a nonsensical approach to this issue. Bans never work, even if we ignore the constitutional rights involved.

 

If you really want to bark up this "omg the humanity!" tree, go after the fast food industry. They kill more people than autos and guns combined.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

The idea that 30,000+ people die in the U.S. every year from guns and this is ok and we should do nothing about it seems unbelievably perverse to me.

 

Over the past 30 years, we've made cars safer and cut the casualty rate per year in auto deaths by 1/2, while the gun death rate has stayed basically constant. In 2015, it's likely that more Americans will die from guns than from auto accidents.

 

Doing nothing about this problem seems like an incredibly perverse perspective.

 

You don't like guns. That's fine, you don't have to. But you are completely irrational about the idea of guns. You ignore other things that don't fit into your agenda on them and pretend everything is fixed by banning them. Heroin, meth, crack, cocaine are all illegal yet amazingly people still die from them. Alcohol is legal and abused by many people. If alcohol wasn't so widely accepted or was illegal there would be fewer alcohol related events such as auto deaths or violent crimes. You like to pretend that there is nothing similar but they are very similar. Most people are responsible yet the small minority is driving your opinion to the ultimate extreme on the issue. Hypothetically, even a 100% ban on guns you can not truly believe would fix all the gun related problems. If people want to do something they will find a way to do it. Timothy McVeigh carried out the OKC bombings with fertilizer. Should that be illegal too?

[Jenksismyhero]

Why does this matter?

 

Other countries don't have the gang numbers we have. That "100k" pool is a bit different in comparison.

[Jenksismyhero]

Balta logic: 25k-30k Japanese kill themselves every year. #banbalconies.

[bmags]

Other countries don't have the gang numbers we have. That "100k" pool is a bit different in comparison.

 

I don't buy it. Gangs are not unique to US, the gun violence rate in US is beyond substantial. The flood of guns available in the western hemisphere from US obsession with them has made the entire 2 continents more dangerous.

[Balta1701]

Balta logic: 25k-30k Japanese kill themselves every year. #banbalconies.

Are 2/3 of them from people jumping off balconies?

 

Do they kill another 10,000 people every year when they land?

[Balta1701]

You don't like guns. That's fine, you don't have to. But you are completely irrational about the idea of guns. You ignore other things that don't fit into your agenda on them and pretend everything is fixed by banning them. Heroin, meth, crack, cocaine are all illegal yet amazingly people still die from them. Alcohol is legal and abused by many people. If alcohol wasn't so widely accepted or was illegal there would be fewer alcohol related events such as auto deaths or violent crimes. You like to pretend that there is nothing similar but they are very similar. Most people are responsible yet the small minority is driving your opinion to the ultimate extreme on the issue. Hypothetically, even a 100% ban on guns you can not truly believe would fix all the gun related problems. If people want to do something they will find a way to do it. Timothy McVeigh carried out the OKC bombings with fertilizer. Should that be illegal too?

After the OKC Bombing, people who bought large quantities of fertilizer had to register with the government. Not an unreasonable precaution, frankly.

[Jenksismyhero]

I don't buy it. Gangs are not unique to US, the gun violence rate in US is beyond substantial. The flood of guns available in the western hemisphere from US obsession with them has made the entire 2 continents more dangerous.

 

There's not a lot of information on gangs in the rest of the world, but here we're now probably over a million.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_population

 

The references to other countries pale in comparison.

 

I'm not discounting we have a gun culture that's clearly different from the rest of the world, as indicated in those numbers.

Edited July 24, 2015 by Jenksismybitch

[ChiSox_Sonix]

After the OKC Bombing, people who bought large quantities of fertilizer had to register with the government. Not an unreasonable precaution, frankly.

 

And people who buy guns (legally) have to register with the government as well. I'd fully support initiatives that made guns harder to obtain, but that's still a long ways from a complete and total ban.

[StrangeSox]

And people who buy guns (legally) have to register with the government as well. I'd fully support initiatives that made guns harder to obtain, but that's still a long ways from a complete and total ban.

 

Yeah but even something is minor as universal background checks couldn't pass a couple of months after Sandy Hook, and after some minor Colorado gun regulations were passed, gun activists successfully recalled two of the legislators. Their is a small but very vocal absolutionist pro-gun minority (including the NRA) who fight against any new gun laws and actively work to weaken what ones we do have.

[bmags]

There's not a lot of information on gangs in the rest of the world, but here we're now probably over a million.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_population

 

The references to other countries pale in comparison.

 

I'm not discounting we have a gun culture that's clearly different from the rest of the world, as indicated in those numbers.

 

We have 330 million, so without UK numbers (ireland would be interesting rate comparison) would need to be substantially less rate in population to see difference.

[StrangeSox]

Plus, we should also care about "gang violence" related deaths anyway. A lot of times it's innocent bystanders, and even when it's not, it's still a major part of the cycle of poverty and violence.