Balta1701 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 03:27 PM) The parent(s). And if they still want an abortion, go get one, and pay for it. Like someone said, cheaper than 18 years... And the end result when the parents can't is that you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 02:32 PM) And the end result when the parents can't is that you will. Well that needs to be fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 02:36 PM) Well that needs to be fixed. The end game of what you're advocating is children needlessly suffering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 03:37 PM) The end game of what you're advocating is children needlessly suffering. Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 01:40 PM) Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses? You're not too far off. All these for profit/corporate run prisons love our drug laws and are especially effective at sucking in the poor/unemployed who aren't conscripted by a lack of options into the military. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 02:37 PM) The end game of what you're advocating is children needlessly suffering. Yeah, better to just kill them before they get here! Problem solved. Tell you what, i'd be agreeable to the government (state, fed, whichever) paying for this stuff, if sterilization is a requirement. If you're dumb enough to get pregnant when you can't afford it, such that the child will be a ward of the state, then you lose your right to conceive for a period of time. Not sure if the science is there to do some kind of temporary sterilization, but if it is, we should start using it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 That's a spectacularly awful idea, but I'll just note again that the government explicitly does not fund abortions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 02:54 PM) That's a spectacularly awful idea, but I'll just note again that the government explicitly does not fund abortions. Why is that any more awful than the abortion itself? And no, it doesn't, for now. But some people are clearly advocating for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 02:56 PM) Why is that any more awful than the abortion itself? Do you not see a difference between forced sterilization and voluntarily terminating a pregnancy? What do you think your proposal would actually accomplish other than shaming women who get abortions? Edited August 5, 2015 by StrangeSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 01:52 PM) Yeah, better to just kill them before they get here! Problem solved. Tell you what, i'd be agreeable to the government (state, fed, whichever) paying for this stuff, if sterilization is a requirement. If you're dumb enough to get pregnant when you can't afford it, such that the child will be a ward of the state, then you lose your right to conceive for a period of time. Not sure if the science is there to do some kind of temporary sterilization, but if it is, we should start using it. This sounds like a theory from Nazi Germany...to deal with all their undesirable populations like Jews, Roma/gypsies, gays, mentally/physically disabled, etc. Edited August 5, 2015 by caulfield12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 02:37 PM) The end game of what you're advocating is children needlessly suffering. And whose fault would that be? I didn't knock them up, I am not denying them an abortion if they want to pay for one. So why do you keep trying to make it my responsibility? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 03:02 PM) And whose fault would that be? I didn't knock them up, I am not denying them an abortion if they want to pay for one. So why do you keep trying to make it my responsibility? It's certainly not the child's fault. Why are you advocating for the needless suffering of children? Edited August 5, 2015 by StrangeSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 03:01 PM) This sounds like a theory from Nazi Germany...to deal with all their undesirable populations like Jews, Roma/gypsies, gays, mentally/physically disabled, etc. Thought they just burned/gassed them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 03:03 PM) It's certainly not the child's fault. Why are you advocating for the needless suffering of children? I am advocating for me to not have to pay for your mistakes. If I chose to help and donate to some charities that do this, that is all good. When you force the charity thru taxation, that is theft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 03:04 PM) I am advocating for me to not have to pay for your mistakes. If I chose to help and donate to some charities that do this, that is all good. When you force the charity thru taxation, that is theft. You are advocating for the needless suffering of children who have made no mistakes and are not at fault for their situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 02:04 PM) I am advocating for me to not have to pay for your mistakes. If I chose to help and donate to some charities that do this, that is all good. When you force the charity thru taxation, that is theft. Lots of non-Christians/atheists would have agreed with your last line when the Bush administration got involved in co-funding an array of religious-based charities while he was in office... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 03:08 PM) Lots of non-Christians/atheists would have agreed with your last line when the Bush administration got involved in co-funding an array of religious-based charities while he was in office... And again you assume I was fine with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 03:06 PM) You are advocating for the needless suffering of children who have made no mistakes and are not at fault for their situation. You are advocating for needless suffering of my wallet who has made no mistakes and are not at fault for the situation. You keep searching for someone to blame/make pay and it always seems to come back to 'tax payers'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Wallet>children Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 The taxation as theft argument is all well and good, but pretty much nullifies any and all functions of the government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 QUOTE (Jake @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 02:46 PM) The taxation as theft argument is all well and good, but pretty much nullifies any and all functions of the government. Because all the government workers are lazy union members who suck up all the public pension funds and bleed small business owners dry...but Scott Walker will stop them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 02:59 PM) Do you not see a difference between forced sterilization and voluntarily terminating a pregnancy? What do you think your proposal would actually accomplish other than shaming women who get abortions? There's nothing forced about it. If you want an abortion, you pay the cost. If you want the gov't to pay for it, you have to agree to it. If you don't want to do either of those things, have the baby. If we're all about saving money, let's save some money. Let's prevent these women from having more kids in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 03:01 PM) This sounds like a theory from Nazi Germany...to deal with all their undesirable populations like Jews, Roma/gypsies, gays, mentally/physically disabled, etc. They didn't really have a choice....so, not the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 03:40 PM) Wallet>children Yeah cuz that's what abortion is all about. Clearly thinking about the kids first in these situations... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 03:25 PM) They didn't really have a choice....so, not the same. Okay, as long as we're not mandating the sterilization of poor people. That's what it sounded like at first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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