Fantl916

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 09:22 AM) Pineda only has a year left and was bad last year. He's not part of their current or future plans beside innings eater and hoping he finally harnesses his stuff. this is counter-intuitive to why the yankees would trade for a pitcher... they already have 2017 rotation depth issues, so why would they subtract a good sp to add a better one? if they're trading a part of their future you can surely assume that it's in part to be competitive sooner, and as such you'd almost have to assume they'd balk at including any piece that subtracts from their major league roster. you can draw a line that this is likely why the red sox wouldn't include benitendi, the nationals turner, the astros bregman, the braves swanson, etc. once these guys touch the majors they become a part of the competitiveness of the team, and young guys that get their tend to instantly become "franchise building blocks" and become somewhat untouchable as you have to replace their production and then some

Guys, there's no way we'd be getting Pineda, Severino or any other player (ie Judge) who's on the Yankees 2017 major league roster. If 125+ pages of this topic has taught us anything, it's that no team is going to include anyone on their actual roster + super sweet prospects for a sweet addition to their roster. The only exception we maybe have to that so far is Reynaldo Lopez, who was prob a bullpen piece for Washington. I think you'd have to look at some combo of guys 1-2 years away like Torres, Frazier, Rutherford, etc. with depth pieces like Andujar, Kaiperan, etc.

Sale and two filler pieces to the Astros for Bregman, Reed, Paulino, Musgrove and Fisher. Robertson to the Dodgers for Puig Abreu to the Red Sox for Kopech and Swihart

Speaking of Gavin Floyd, this whole rumor factory around this samardjiza deal stinks of the Gavin Floyd to Toronto bs from a couple years back. Everyone has sources and is throwing all kinda of ish against the wall at this point to see what sticks. Still haven't heard a peep from any notable baseball writer/reporter on the sox being involved. This is all spinning of Susan sussler's singular mention. Think everyone needs to temper their excitement.

Super wild guest, one most won't like I'd assume, but here goes: Boston gets Quintana, low minors prospect or two Chicago gets Swihart, Owens, Renaudo, Nava

I'm pretty sure that any deal with the Dodgers involving Alexei, at this point, is dead. With this rumor being a week old with no momentum recently i would assume the teams are looking at options and not aggressively working out a deal. i would anticipate no action on this prior to this winter meetings. all that said, i will agree with some of the recent discussions around alexei for kemp... i would highly doubt the dodgers would do that. in my eyes, the dodgers are most likely to prefer a deal with crawford or ethier in just a salary dump which wouldnt jive with the Sox wants for Alexei in a trade.

It's a joke. The actor Rob Lowe tweeted today that Peyton manning in retiring. So peeps are joking that Rob Lowe is breaking information. Since the Gavin Floyd to Blue Jays thing was a funny rumor im imagining the ESPN guy is jesting...

Rosenthal just tweeted it. Nothing on whom we get

I'm not buying the "dominant rotation" part, but I will say that kw has been adept recently at finding good starting pitching. IMO, if all works out we have a couple #2s (danks/sale/nestor) and a couple #3/4 types (Floyd/Humber/) with backend guys in Stewart/axelrod/etc. The prob with what we currently have is the timelines don't mesh. By the time Nestor is established in the bigs Floyd might be gone. Sale has talent for sure, but can it translate to being a starter (a lessor worry of mine) and can he stay healthy over 180+ innings (huge worry of mine with his delivery). Also it's gonna take sale until 2013 to pitch more than 160 innings ap in the immediate future you're looking at a hard innings cap. Danks is already #2/3 and Floyd is an solid #3, but unless someone busts out above their rough expectation (depending on who and what ya read) this org lacks win now pitchers and lacks bigtime prospects for the coming years outside sale and Nestor which isn't a huge problem... BUT... If one of those two doesn't pan out this org will be hurting in the quality sp dept.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Dec 17, 2011 -> 10:43 AM) Wow Padres get: Volqez, Alonso, Grandal, Boxberger. i know hindsight is 20/20, but this is why i dislike peeps being opposed to dealing an asset simply because you have that asset under control for many year. its not a good comparison, but seeing this package makes me wonder what we couldve gotten for danks last offseason or two offseasons ago. that is a crazy great package. hoyer and byrnes are building quite a nice little squad in SD. i think Grandal is going to be amazing, my jealousy knows no bounds on this one. i was hoping for grandal more than anything this offseason

http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/the-gms-of...entin-and-danks ESPN has an article up with Bowden chucking out 5 trades involving Sox players. Let me say I hate all 5 of them... 1. Danks to the Nationals for Brad Peacock and Destin Hood. barf. hood is whatever and peacock would get rocked in the AL or end up as a reliever... gross 2. Beckham to the Giants for Surkamp, Heath Hembree, Ehire Adrianza barf. a borderline #5 starter, middle relief prospect, and middle infield prospect with no bat... gross 3. Quentin to the Braves for Kris Medlan and JJ Hoover. barf. a 2nd division starting pitcher and middle relief prospect.... gross 4. Floyd to the Pirates for Starling Marte and Daniel Moskos super barf. this is the worst of them all. both marte and moskos are garbage, neither will be even decent major league contributors 5. AJP to the Rays for Jacob Thompson whatevs. ajp who cares, lance broadway 2.0 is fine... if this is how SOx prospects are viewed outside our bubble then we're in for some serious disappointment...

There goes Cahill to the Dbacks. One more chip has fallen. Yankees, Rangers, Red, Red Sox and maybe Marlins and Nationals still looking for pitching. Darvish, Shields, Neimann/Wade Davis, Garza, Gio, Danks, Floyd names being floated. You figure eventually someones coming to KW for a SP

I pretty much agree. KW played his cards right on this one. He has assets that weren't #1 on peeps lists (the Pujols, MBs, Wilsons of the world) and the best way to build interest in those guys is to wait until theyre the cream of the crop later in the offseason. Now that the major pieces have fallen we are sitting in a nice spot. Those teams looking for pitching might first look to the As for Gio/Cahill, but the reality is is that they can acquire Danks/Floyd/CQ for far less than a Dan Haren type package that Beane wants which makes us major players at this point. It will interesting to see where KW goes from here, but i will say that while i like KWs moves thus far this offseason, how this offseason finishes will define the Sox over the next 3-4 years and this will likely be the offseason that reinvigorates or breaks KWs tenure as GM. He cant afford to let CQ or Danks just walk for a comp pick, he cant trade Floyd for talents that dont contribute significantly since Floyd is as valauble a commodity in this market as it gets (solid WAR, affordable contract, likely wont cost half of Gio's price). This is his chance to add to the foundation for the period of time moving forward and hes gotta continue making sound decisions and not setting this team back any further.

i think one thing shouldn't be lost in these discussions about whom the white sox are trading with and why. I, personally, think it's completely valid to identify who your tradeable assets are and to target specific prospects, leveraging a perceived value as much as your can while still getting the guys you want. I see a lot of posts about tading with the orioles or red sox or yankees, but in reality what's the point if those orgs are only going to offer their #8 and #10 prospects? if the yankees won't part with banuelos for danks, and you don't partiucularly like guys like noesi or sanchez or heathcott then why pull the trigger? one of kenny's first comments re: the trade of santos for molina was that molina was one of their top tier targets on their so-called "short list". he traded a replaceable commodity, albeit a solid asset, for someone they view as a very high quality prospect. you can't argue with that. you also aren't being a good armchair gm if youre just throwing out names saying things like "i wish the white sox wouldve talked to the red sox about santos cuz gordon edes tweeted this! we couldve got kalish! lars anderson! reddick! middlebrooks!"... barf.... give me one prospect with a chance to be a #2 starter (ie a well above average MLBer) as opposed to 3 lower division types. i like kenny's approach, and anyone who's been calling for a "let the youngens play" approach should like it to. with where we are, you make everyone available and see what you are offered. much like Beane is doing with Gio and Alderson is doing with Neise/Ike (Ike, depending on what you read) as you never know if someone's gonna blow you away. I see merit is listening if someone wants to talk viciedo, even if "it doesnt make sense" but the offer would have to be ridiculous to take. lest, i digress, thats not really what this post is about. the reality is that kenny is doing the right thing, by idenifying whom he's most willing to deal and targeting specific prospects that his scouting/management team has identified as peeps on their short list. getting equal value doesnt necessarily mean the world at this point when you're going backwards. if the Reds offer Grandal, a guy maybe keeny sees as the catcher of the future, for Floyd don't you do it? dont you make that leap and say "screw if this isnt equal value i'm getting 1 piece that i want for someone who doesnt fit in my long term plans". i'm on board hugely with santos and nestor because of that very reason, and am for one excited for nestor molina this year to see what he's got.

The Mets won't be looking for an Alexei type in a trade if it involves them dumping their young pitching or Ike Davis or Duda, which means that the Mets aren't a good candidate. Also, Wilmer Flores isn't a SS, he's likely going to need to move to 3b or the OF, and even then his star is fading quickly as he hasn't yet delivered on his potential. Nonetheless, if you're going to trade Alexei you might look at a team like the Cards, who stand to lose Furcal, and you set your sights high. Perhaps Alexei and Danks for Carlos Martinez? if you cannot get a monster talent in return you keep Alexei as he's well worth his contract

Floyd, Santos to Reds for Yonder, Grandal, A ball type Konerko to Brewers for Wily Peralta, Gamel Everybody wins?

Andrew Brackman released by the Yankees today. Sign em up, Coop will fix him!

So just to summarize at this point: Manager: Ventura Bench: Parent Pitting: Coop Hitting: Manto/Laker (Manto favored) 1st: Baines 3rd: McEwing Correct ya? We're pretty much done after the hitting coach is decided?

Curious if anyone believes that it could be good for the team long term future to trade Paulie. While on the surface I am opposed to it, it's a solid discussion point. Pros: -Paulie is the one player on the roster that could bring the biggest return. He's an all-star caliber 1b and a team needing a power bat could feasibly provide a sweet package of prospects to get him. -He's getting older, and we'd be selling high to say the least -There are options. While not necessarily good ones, you can start with Dunn. Perhaps getting him back to playing the field keeps him more engaged and he hits better. If not, Quentin/Viciedo could fit here as well. Cons: - He's our team leader, captain, and best player. Guys like this often are your franchise centerpieces and not trade material unless you're doing a massive rebuild - He's relatively affordable for his production and is only signed through the next two years which gives us the option to pay him appropriately to finish his career here - His replacements... While I understand that trading your most productive player is bad business, could it make sense in our current situation? THink about it: we have Peavy on our books for this year, Rios for the next four and Dunn for the next three. Peavy aside, that's more than 25$ tied to two underacheiving players heading into Paulie's walk year and beyond. If we hold Paulie and play it out then our competiveness is tied to Rios and Dunn's production, while having no financial means to supplement what's already in place. We would be dependent on trades of Danks, CQ, etc. to provide reinforcements. If indeed a "youth movement" is taking place, this perhaps we should explore trading our aging vets. Everyone's talking about trading CQ but the return is likely mediocre, one that is sure to bring out mass anger on this message board. Perhaps trading Paulie allows us to keep Danks and Quentin and move forward with the additional youth gained from a PK trade? I'm not condoning this, just guaging the temperature of the Sox folk out there on how we could possibly position ourselves for success 2-4 years from now with our contract situations.

I'm having a hard time buying into the idea that we need to trade Quentin to clear space for a crowded outfield, and people being ok with accepting a moderate or worse return on him in order to accomplish such. If there isn't a team willing to pony up a couple good prospects for a power bat then hold him. Our outfield situation can be remedied by platooning rios and de aza in CF. But really? Dump Quentin for scraps just to shed salary? That's not how a good team rebuilds. You hold out until a team meets your price. Off the top of my head I can think a more than a few teams that could potentially use Quentin: Red Sox, Cubs, D'backs, Rockies, Astros, Dodgers (if they lose Ethier), Mets, A's. Pirates, Giants, Mariners, Nationals, etc. Now whether these teams are legit matches who knows. But you cant tell me one wouldnt give something solid this offseason for a power bat. The Giants are dying for power, the Cubs/Mets/Nationals have had a corner outfield spot occupied by well below average COFs for quite some time, some of the teams i listed are going young but maybe a team like the d'backs or mariners think they can compete with a bit more power and pony up. What I'm saying is it's bad business at this point to trade Quentin just the clear salary. You hold him until your perceived price is met, and if nobody meets it then you let him walk as a free agent and get the nice draft picks. The reality for our team is not that Viciedo can replace Quentin, as Viciedo is going to play anyways, it's whether Rios and De Aza can be depended on to both produce in Quentin's absence which is a huge doubt in my mind.

the two prospects we got from the Marlins were ranked as their #4 and #5 top prospects by Baseball America heading into the year. not a bad return at all. Jhan seems like the prototypical KW relief pitcher type arm (COOP WILL FIX HIM!).

weird random idea... i was reading how the marlins are likely to increase their payroll significantly as they move into a new stadium and such. i could be off my rocker, but wouldnt the following trade make some sense as it solves problems on both ends? i imagine to sox would love this but how averse would the marlins be to this:: logan morrison for quentin, a prospect like mitchell, and ozzie?

kip wells... fml

i think once the GM/Coach thing is settled priority #1 needs to be deciding the pitching staff. While is don't think it's likely as some might be suggesting, I think Sale needs to move to the rotation. If we re-sign MB then that gives us 7 starters: MB, Danks, Peavs, Floyd, Humber, Stewart, Sale. Re-signing MB and trading Danks seems to make the most sense to me. A team like Washington (habitually looking for a vet to plop behind Strasburg) might be willing to offer a couple of nice spects if he'll sign an extension. Sale will likely be on an innings limit if hes transitioned to the rotation so starting him as the long man to begin the year would make sense. if he performs well consider trading Floyd at the deadline next year. that is roster priority #1 to me. gotta figure out the short / long term direction of our staff

QUOTE (Brian @ Sep 6, 2011 -> 01:05 PM) I don't like using a top ten pick on a set up guy. I want Sale starting next year. My question for those who want Sale to start is who's sits/is traded? You can definitely pencil Peavy and Humber into the rotation. I would also say it's safe to say at least 2 of 3 between Danks, MB, Floyd will be in the rotation, if not all three. Then there's also Stewart. For Sale to start (in the majors at least) you'd have to trade Danks, not re-sign MB, and probably go with a 6 man rotation. The other prob with starting Sale is putting him back in the minors potentially for however long until he's ready to rock again if you don't clear that rotation spot. i get the idea, but maybe more of a CJ Wilson approach where you have him throw more innings next year and groom him for a spot a couple years down the road? interesting topic tho