soxforlife05

QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 08:53 AM) The bolded part nails it. I also find it funny that some guys want to treat it as if we traded Robertson for Clarkin, when in the Nationals thread they wanted guys like Kieboom, Soto, etc for Robertson. Clearly we also did not get good return on Robertson either. I like Rutherford a lot, but still feel like this isn't quite enough. A top 10 guy like Andujar, Adams, Sheffield or Mateo instead of Polo would have made this deal much more palatable. Look at what the A's got for Doolittle and Madson. Going to stop posting in this thread soon because people just don't get it. A's lowered the market with their deal. Proposed Nats deal was dependent on their desperation for multiple relievers.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 08:53 AM) To continue to make this argument completely ignores the point that these were assets that had value on the market. I get that we want to convert them to assets that can help us in the future, but that doesn't mean you just start dumping all your present assets down the drain to get anything you can. You going to lose your s*** if Avi gets dealt too? Another 3 month wonder

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 08:36 AM) There is debate as to whether the guy is a top 50 guy, a top 80 guy....he didn't exactly light it up to start off the year. Seems you just don't like the deal. Might as well not even comment on it anymore. After what happened to Nate Jones I have no idea how you can be an advocate of waiting. That could end up being two pieces that should be traded we lost all value for. And after the A's deal all the Robles talk went out the window.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 11:20 PM) This season, he has been elite. Fair? He has as much of a track record as Swarzak.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 11:27 PM) What? No. This is false. Frazier was largely a disappointment in Chicago, bye felicia Frazier went the way of Swisher

QUOTE (GenericUserName @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 11:15 PM) Normally I don't like to be a downer, but I really dislike this trade. When we have been talking about getting Kieboom or Soto for Robertson and how good Kahnle has become plus he is controllable for three more years, I feel like the only real piece we got was Rutherford. Hell, we had to take on Clippard!!! Rutherford seems like a glorified Jameson Fisher to me and I'm not a fan. Both those guys are rated highly because they are supposed to have natural hitting ability and nice swings, but the results aren't any better than guys with average hitting ability. And that might be fine if they had other skills that could add value, but they don't have speed that can be useful in the majors, are below average defenders, and have week arms. And Hahn saying he could play CF! But Rutherford is supposed to have power right? Except he has 2 home runs this season. If Rutherford wasn't highly rated going into the draft because he crushed guys year younger than him I definitely think he would be outside the top 100. I feel like this is buying high on Rutherford and selling low on Kahnle. Why take this trade two weeks before the deadline?! I hope I'm wrong, but this is the first time I'm down on a prospect, and this is probably our last trade that can add high end talent and I feel like we missed out. ***Deep breath*** Rant over. Only reason why people thought we could get Kieboom or Soto for Robertson alone is because of how desperate the Nats were for relief pitching. But the A's were sure to give them a sweet deal. I'm guessing Rizzo didn't want an egg on his face twice in one season for dealing with Hahn.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 11:05 PM) There was no need to move him RIGHT NOW. People said the same thing about Nate Jones last offseason. Look how that one turned out. Remember when we all said include him with Sale to get Devers, Moncada, and Kopech? And then a bunch of people came in and said packaging him with Sale diminishes his value and to wait.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 10:50 PM) And Rutherford could easily turn into nothing. Now you are just justifying your own desire to like this deal. Who else on this team is going to return a blue chip positional prospect? Maybe Avi if he hit like this the rest of the year. It had to be done. We only have so many chances at getting blue chip prospects in trades. If this team had a massive payroll I could understand going for the quantity over quality argument. Need to maximize chances of acquiring cost controlled future all stars with payroll constraints. Once the major league team is bare we only have a couple years of high draft picks and an occasional bigger international signing.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 10:00 PM) Well David Robertson is 14th in reliever WAR since 2015 and there are legitimate reasons to believe that Kahnle has taken a step forward making him one of the best relievers in the league, so simplifying it like this is actually rather poor. so we're gonna run with a 35-36 year old closer when our window opens up? kahnle is not a closer he's a middle reliever. really not much better than swarzak. you just rate him highly because he's younger

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 10:23 PM) Yup. Basically gave Kahnle away for free. Who else on this team is going to land a prospect of Blake Rutherford's caliber. I'll be waiting.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 10:20 PM) I think it's a touch light. I thought D Rob was a 70-100 guy plus a fringe; Same with Kahnle. so instead it would be 1 30-50 guy and 2 fringes; So nothing for Frazier (although I guess it could be Frazier for Clippard, but that wouldn't be in the Sox interests). They will have a low payroll next year - they should be able to eat some money. look at what a's got for doolittle and madson. miracle we got anything good

QUOTE (heirdog @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 10:06 PM) Todd Frazier wouldn't buy you a bus ticket in this market Robertson isn't Chapman or Miller Kahnle is essentially Nate Jones from a couple years ago (sell high before injury/implosion) If that nets me a top 40 prospect that could continue to trend up, a LH starting pitcher w pretty good stuff and another low level lottery ticket...sign me up every single time. this. can't believe how much people are overvaluing who we just moved. People thrilled about moving Quintana - a true ace on any team but they get mad about getting a top prospect for spare parts. lol

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 10:03 PM) Tommy Kahnle made some mechanical changes and has the 3rd-best SIERA in baseball this year behind Kenley Jansen and Craig Kimbrel. (David Robertson 15th-best, for context Andrew Miller 6th-best and Chris Sale 13th-best). This is not dirt the White Sox are sending the Yankees. Apparently the Sox aren't sold and they know pitching better than anyone. Kahnle is really the only guy who could end up swinging this deal in the Yankees favor. Remember DRob and Kahnle in KC when they blew that 7 run? lead in the 9th? If he isn't closer material we won't regret this at all. Selling high on Eaton was another example of taking advantage of the saber overvaluation of certain players. After the A's literally gave away Doolittle and Madson for nothing people are mad we managed to find a way to get Rutherford. Amazing.

QUOTE (soxfan49 @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 09:59 PM) For a top 40 prospect. The problem is people bringing up these 5 player packages, some including Torres. Cashman isn't a dumbass. He knows he isn't getting great players back, too. frazier and robertson have zero value to the white sox. neither would be on the team during the next window. kahnle is a middle reliever having a decent year could easily be a flash in the pan. if kahnle regresses the sox didn't really lose anything and gained another top prospect

lol at people who hate this deal. frazier = a rental and not even a good one at that, robertson = decent closer not particularly special or dominant with no value to current team, kahnle = one year wonder who was effectively a middle reliever last year. Robertson also looked terrible at times last year.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 09:39 PM) Totally get this point of view. But looking at it like giving away 3 above average MLB regulars for a kid in A ball seems scary. Need to see a little deadline desperation piece added. No less projectable than Jimenez. And we didn't give up anyone of real value to get him. If its a career year for Kahnle this is a total steal. Frazier and Robertson have no value to the existing team and would be gone if they stayed till end of their contracts anyway. I am surprised the Yankees would move a top prospect for that package. Usually those guys are off limits except for elite/all star caliber vets.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 09:33 PM) Man, I agree with the first part. I would have never traded both Robertson and Kahnle for Rutherford. Especially if we are taking back Clippard. You miss the A's deal? They killed the market for relief pitching. Miracle we got Rutherford for those two.

Wow to get Rutherford for a rental that's not that great, closer we had no use for, and a middle reliever having a career year? Total steal. Nice work Hahn. Clarkin seems like a decent get too.

Moncada Kopech Eloy Robert Gio Lopez Cease Dunning Basabe Rose Flete Diaz

QUOTE (Quin @ Jul 16, 2017 -> 08:37 PM) The White Sox create new league rules to allow 9 DHs and 9 fielders. Stick him in LF or DH him and keep Davidson at 3B once Frazier gone

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 16, 2017 -> 06:02 PM) A key to the rebuild is also getting core guys that aren't expected (i.e.: Hendricks for Cubs). Could see someone like Adolfo and Delmonico being a few of those guys

Judging by the A's return? A toe and a finger

QUOTE (BamaDoc @ Jul 16, 2017 -> 03:36 PM) 7ip 3h 0r 0w 12 k's Told you all so yet again

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 16, 2017 -> 10:38 AM) No one offered anywhere close to that. The Sox got lowballed all winter on him. Every offer I saw was teams refusing to include their top prospect, or even two. And the Sox were rumored to be asking for players like Musgrove and Betts last year for various players they wanted to move so it's obvious why deals didn't get done fast.

A's got hosed. Way to lower the bar for relievers Oakland.