CWSGuy406 Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 What might be. That's what keeps everyone coming back. Maybe we could get Mulder and Zito as well. Do you have any idea how many planets have to align for that to happen? Do you really think in the next off season we will outbid every other team for starting pitching? Do you want me to post the list of FA starting pitchers for next year? Every team is NOT going to outbid us - that's pretty stupid. Plus, Freddy Garcia and Ozzie are buds - Freddy has even said he'd love to play for Ozzie. If we didn't have Maggs' contract going into next year, we would get at LEAST one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 13, 2004 Author Share Posted June 13, 2004 Fine - Yasny and Texsox - I'm too stupid, I guess just because I'm too young. You want to pay Maggs 14 million? Fine - but it isn't going to get us any closer to a World Series Title, especially if the payroll is at 65 million. I can do Math - and that would be about a fifth of our payroll on one guy. That worked with Albert Belle and Frank Thomas, now didn't it? Putting Reed in right will move us closer than Maggs? You can make the same star for player argument about Buerhle, Thomas, Lee, anyone. Any idea what Maggs is making this season? Williams was questioned about Ordonez, earning $14 million in the final year of his current contract. He provided the usual direct responses regarding the matter, but possibly delivered them for the last time where this topic is concerned. Why the hell shouldn't he want a raise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 Well TexSox, I tried to make them see where we were coming from. But they can't seem to let go of the money aspect to see our point of view. They will in about 2035 though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 Putting Reed in right will move us closer than Maggs? You can make the same star for player argument about Buerhle, Thomas, Lee, anyone. Any idea what Maggs is making this season? Why the hell shouldn't he want a raise? Maggs is making 14 million this year. And we're weak in the bullpen and we're one starting pitcher short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 What might be. That's what keeps everyone coming back. Maybe we could get Mulder and Zito as well. Do you have any idea how many planets have to align for that to happen? Do you really think in the next off season we will outbid every other team for starting pitching? Ok tex. There is a lot of good pitching out there in the offseason. Besides maggs salary you have jose and koch probably coming off the books for 11 million but much of that 11 million is going to other players for pay raises. Add loaiza to the resign list and I believe shoney has an option. So look at it like this if maggs resigns your most likely losing shoney or esty. Ok so now the sox have 3 starting pitchers, then they most likely throw neal in the rotation. Now you have to throw more young kids in the bullpen which your obviously real against. Resigning maggs for 14 mill just isn't smart for this franchise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 I'm not saying that anybody is stupid. As I said, it's just what you are looking at and where you are looking at it from, that is different. In fact, I stated that you had some very valid points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 13, 2004 Author Share Posted June 13, 2004 Plus, Freddy Garcia and Ozzie are buds - Freddy has even said he'd love to play for Ozzie. Now your age is really showing through. Oh. Ozzie and I are buds, I'm going to turn down a couple extra millions to play for my bud. I'm sorry. Now you've hit the just plain silly level. How much do you think playing for a buddy is worth? A million dollars? BTW, Maggs said he would love to play in Chicago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 Well TexSox, I tried to make them see where we were coming from. But they can't seem to let go of the money aspect to see our point of view. They will in about 2035 though. Once again money is a huge player in this issue. JR won't just shell out as much money as steinbrennar. I've stated numerous times that I hate it but thats the way it is. You guys keep telling us we're to young to understand but you guys seem to be the ones not looking at the money aspect and you have to when it comes to baseball and especially with the sox and the self imposed budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 Once again money is a huge player in this issue. JR won't just shell out as much money as steinbrennar. I've stated numerous times that I hate it but thats the way it is. You guys keep telling us we're to young to understand but you guys seem to be the ones not looking at the money aspect and you have to when it comes to baseball and especially with the sox and the self imposed budget. You are not understanding this part of it ... I am acknowledging your point of view and saying your points are valid and correct. What you are refusing to do is step back and see where we are coming from. That's all. No disrespect or demeaning you and your views in any way is intended here. Just trying to get you to look at from a different perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 13, 2004 Author Share Posted June 13, 2004 Ok tex. There is a lot of good pitching out there in the offseason. Besides maggs salary you have jose and koch probably coming off the books for 11 million but much of that 11 million is going to other players for pay raises. Add loaiza to the resign list and I believe shoney has an option. So look at it like this if maggs resigns your most likely losing shoney or esty. Ok so now the sox have 3 starting pitchers, then they most likely throw neal in the rotation. Now you have to throw more young kids in the bullpen which your obviously real against. Resigning maggs for 14 mill just isn't smart for this franchise. It's the process. This franchise hasn't built anything when they are always tearing down. They lost Colon in the off season and signed no one of significance. There is no guarantee than they will sign anyone next year. You are swapping a known commodity for hope. Is there a set of events that could lead to an improvement in Maggs is gone? Of course. You and CWSGuy have easily presented a wish list of player we could get. In fact we can create one fantasy wish after another. History has shown us time and again that we do not do well competing in the free agent market. What is going to change this year? Using the logic here, we should not bid on anyone earning more than about $8,000,000 or else it will take up too much salary. That eliminates a bunch of prospects. We will not offer 4 years to a pitcher. That will eliminate a bunch of prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 Now your age is really showing through. Oh. Ozzie and I are buds, I'm going to turn down a couple extra millions to play for my bud. I'm sorry. Now you've hit the just plain silly level. How much do you think playing for a buddy is worth? A million dollars? BTW, Maggs said he would love to play in Chicago. I'm not saying he'd take a few million less to play with us - don't put words in my mouth, that's really ignorant. I said it could factor into his decision. If he's torn between two teams, it could factor and make us the leading candidate. You want to say my notions are silly? I think it's pretty silly for you to say, "Well, what if none of these FA pitchers play for us?"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 It's the process. This franchise hasn't built anything when they are always tearing down. They lost Colon in the off season and signed no one of significance. There is no guarantee than they will sign anyone next year. You are swapping a known commodity for hope. Is there a set of events that could lead to an improvement in Maggs is gone? Of course. You and CWSGuy have easily presented a wish list of player we could get. In fact we can create one fantasy wish after another. History has shown us time and again that we do not do well competing in the free agent market. What is going to change this year? Using the logic here, we should not bid on anyone earning more than about $8,000,000 or else it will take up too much salary. That eliminates a bunch of prospects. We will not offer 4 years to a pitcher. That will eliminate a bunch of prospects. No, no no no no, now you're really missing the whole point. Vladimir Guerrero = Worth 14 million. Magglio Ordonez = Not worth 14 million. You have to understand - 14 million dollars is a LOT of money to invest in just one player. And I don't see my list as fantasy at all, I don't know what you're looking at, but I think it's pretty reasonable that the Sox can land Freddy Garcia and Ugueth Urbina this offseason... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 No, no no no no, now you're really missing the whole point. Vladimir Guerrero = Worth 14 million. Magglio Ordonez = Not worth 14 million. You have to understand - 14 million dollars is a LOT of money to invest in just one player. And I don't see my list as fantasy at all, I don't know what you're looking at, but I think it's pretty reasonable that the Sox can land Freddy Garcia and Ugueth Urbina this offseason... Exactly, it's not a fantasy list, it's a very reasonable list. But we're young so we know nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 I'm done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 You are swapping a known commodity for hope. The CEO of our company has a great saying. Hope=delayed disappointment. And, in this case, I couldn't agree more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 13, 2004 Author Share Posted June 13, 2004 I'm not saying he'd take a few million less to play with us - don't put words in my mouth, that's really ignorant. I said it could factor into his decision. If he's torn between two teams, it could factor and make us the leading candidate. You want to say my notions are silly? I think it's pretty silly for you to say, "Well, what if none of these FA pitchers play for us?"... Trust me. Playing for a buddy will not be a factor. Money, terms, location, potential spot in the rotation, bull pen, offense, pitching coach, NL vs. AL, travel arrangements (private jet, private room) stadium, locker room, ownership, who his agent likes, etc. will all come into play before who the manager of the day is. At least the Sox keep managers for a few seasons and he could be resonablty assured of Oz for three years. This is especially important for a young player. Roger Clemens, at this stage in his career, can afford to pick teams on esoteric reasons, Garcia will not. I'm sorry for being sarcastic. I just realized I'm doing the equivelent of telling an eight year old there is no Santa Clause. (and no, I'm not calling you an eight year old.) I actually appreciate your determination and enthusiasm for losing the team's best player. You have faith in KW and ownership in making things better. I have much less faith. You have faith in signing free agents, I do not. I will accept your argument that it could turn out better. We'll never know, so it realy isn't worth debating anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 13, 2004 Author Share Posted June 13, 2004 The CEO of our company has a great saying. Hope=delayed disappointment. And, in this case, I couldn't agree more. LMAO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 13, 2004 Author Share Posted June 13, 2004 No, no no no no, now you're really missing the whole point. Vladimir Guerrero = Worth 14 million. Magglio Ordonez = Not worth 14 million. You have to understand - 14 million dollars is a LOT of money to invest in just one player. And I don't see my list as fantasy at all, I don't know what you're looking at, but I think it's pretty reasonable that the Sox can land Freddy Garcia and Ugueth Urbina this offseason... Explain to me why you are so confident in signing Garcia? And how is Vlad the standard in contracts? If Vlad hits a slump, will you still use him as comparison? Is he only the standard for this year, or 2005, 2006, 2007? Plus, you wouldn't take Guerrero either remember? Too much salary on one guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 Trust me. Playing for a buddy will not be a factor. Money, terms, location, potential spot in the rotation, bull pen, offense, pitching coach, NL vs. AL, travel arrangements (private jet, private room) stadium, locker room, ownership, who his agent likes, etc. will all come into play before who the manager of the day is. At least the Sox keep managers for a few seasons and he could be resonablty assured of Oz for three years. This is especially important for a young player. Roger Clemens, at this stage in his career, can afford to pick teams on esoteric reasons, Garcia will not. I'm sorry for being sarcastic. I just realized I'm doing the equivelent of telling an eight year old there is no Santa Clause. (and no, I'm not calling you an eight year old.) I actually appreciate your determination and enthusiasm for losing the team's best player. You have faith in KW and ownership in making things better. I have much less faith. You have faith in signing free agents, I do not. I will accept your argument that it could turn out better. We'll never know, so it realy isn't worth debating anymore. I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree. Like I said earlier in the thread, we all want the same goal - a World Series Title for the White Sox. We're just taking different routes to get there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 Your Sox are showing... :headshake Did you see how well he played that flyball last night against the Dodgers? That's WORTH it huh... Yea I saw it, but his poor defense doesn't change the fact he's the best right handed hitter in the game. PS: they won the game ;o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 Now your age is really showing through. Oh. Ozzie and I are buds, I'm going to turn down a couple extra millions to play for my bud. I'm sorry. Now you've hit the just plain silly level. How much do you think playing for a buddy is worth? A million dollars? BTW, Maggs said he would love to play in Chicago. Freddy Garcia is the next year's Colon/Ponson. Giving him 4/40 will be REEEEALLY stupid. Let the Yankees have him. BTW.......I must say you've taken verbal abuse from the little b**** CW406 yesterday a little better than I would have. Good on you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 13, 2004 Author Share Posted June 13, 2004 Freddy Garcia is the next year's Colon/Ponson. Giving him 4/40 will be REEEEALLY stupid. Let the Yankees have him. BTW.......I must say you've taken verbal abuse from the little b**** CW406 yesterday a little better than I would have. Good on you. He'll pass on 4/40 to play for his buddy at 3/24. Losing debates to you has made me tougher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 Freddy Garcia is the next year's Colon/Ponson. Giving him 4/40 will be REEEEALLY stupid. Let the Yankees have him. BTW.......I must say you've taken verbal abuse from the little b**** CW406 yesterday a little better than I would have. Good on you. Yeah - I wouldn't give Garcia 10 million per either... Hopefully his price will drop a bit, but if it doesn't, we'll have to put our eggs in another basket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 Yeah - I wouldn't give Garcia 10 million per either... Hopefully his price will drop a bit, but if it doesn't, we'll have to put our eggs in another basket. Matt Morris... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 13, 2004 Author Share Posted June 13, 2004 Matt Morris... He's making $9 mil per year guaranteed. I doubt he'll sign elsewhere for much less. At at 30 or 31 yrs of age, I doubt JR would make an aggressive offer. He would look nice in a Sox uniform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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