StrangeSox Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 This is still irrelevant, because what bills Congress has or hasn't voted on does not define the American political landscape or what counts as "centrist" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 12:54 PM) No, but you can't define centrist as ever-so-slightly-to-the-left-of-Tea-Party. THat logic bring us to the "center" of the country seeing default as OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 QUOTE (Rex Kicka** @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 01:55 PM) http://beta.news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/p...-143421891.html http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/st...ns-favor-both-/ They support raising taxes on other people. That is different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 05:59 PM) THat logic bring us to the "center" of the country seeing default as OK. I've railed against the idea that "the solution lies between the shouting heads on either side" plenty of times here. I'm not speaking to the merit of the centralist policies but merely that they exist and that Grover Norquist's pledge isn't a part of it. Here's Bruce Bartlett explaining why Obama is effectively a moderate conservative based on the policies he's advocated and enacted. Edited July 27, 2011 by StrangeSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 07:02 PM) They support raising taxes on other people. That is different. Just like the republicans support cuttig jobs, benefits, and voting rights for other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 07:24 PM) Just like the republicans support cuttig jobs, benefits, and voting rights for other people. And yet Obama's own Jobs Czar, whose own company paid no income taxes last year on massive profits, is closing a plant in Wisconsin and shipping the jobs and $2 billion of training and upgrades to China. Way to create jobs....for the Chinese. Or is this a dig at the Republicans in Wisconsin? Depends on how tight your tin foil hat is, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 07:35 PM) And yet Obama's own Jobs Czar, whose own company paid no income taxes last year on massive profits, is closing a plant in Wisconsin and shipping the jobs and $2 billion of training and upgrades to China. Way to create jobs....for the Chinese. Or is this a dig at the Republicans in Wisconsin? Depends on how tight your tin foil hat is, I guess. good old Obozo. Shipping jobs overseas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Would y'all endorse policies in favor of making it harder to outsource jobs? I thought that was supposed to be a great thing for the economy. Anyway, yeah, putting te head of ge in charge of "jobs" was idiotic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 this thread is a working example of the OP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 08:15 PM) Would y'all endorse policies in favor of making it harder to outsource jobs? i would Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeNukeEm Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) The internet has made partisanship an unstoppable back and forth. There's no slowing it down. Your best bet is to just watch the empire fall, remember the good times, and spend time wondering about things that you can control/actually matter. Edited July 28, 2011 by DukeNukeEm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 10:50 PM) The internet has made partisanship an unstoppable back and forth. There's no slowing it down. Your best bet is to just watch the empire fall, remember the good times, and spend time wondering about things that you can control/actually matter. As long as I get my dancing Ewoks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 QUOTE (mr_genius @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 08:38 PM) i would Um, wouldn't this be against pretty much everything that conservatives and tea partiers believe? I'm not saying you're either but from the comments I've seen it leads to believe you are (pulling a FlySox here), and aren't those groups strictly for the government to lay their hands off corporations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Oh, and outsourcing DOES NOT equal offshoring. There is offshore outsourcing, but that is a distinct difference. Outsourcing happens quite a bit on American soil between two or more American companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 08:15 PM) Would y'all endorse policies in favor of making it harder to outsource jobs? I thought that was supposed to be a great thing for the economy. Anyway, yeah, putting te head of ge in charge of "jobs" was idiotic. The Dems sure haven't. Making it harder and more expensive to do business are eh biggest reasons why jobs leave this country in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 11:16 AM) The Dems sure haven't. Making it harder and more expensive to do business are eh biggest reasons why jobs leave this country in the first place. I love remarks that basically say "if we had the labor, health, and environmental standards of China, our employment situation would be fine." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 08:29 AM) Um, wouldn't this be against pretty much everything that conservatives and tea partiers believe? Well, you would be surprised at the animosity within the tea party towards off-shoring and corporate 'traitors'. now, i'm not saying I am or am not in that group, but it's a substantial segment of the tea party. now, neo-conservatives are pretty much all in on off-shoring. they love it. but a neo-conservative is loyal to profit, not any country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 QUOTE (mr_genius @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 12:50 PM) Well, you would be surprised at the animosity within the tea party towards off-shoring and corporate 'traitors'. now, i'm not saying I am or am not in that group, but it's a substantial segment of the tea party. now, neo-conservatives are pretty much all in on off-shoring. they love it. but a neo-conservative is loyal to profit, not any country. Bigger profits = more jobs though, isn't that why so many conservatives are complaining about high tax rates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 02:02 PM) Bigger profits = more jobs though, isn't that why so many conservatives are complaining about high tax rates? actually, less US workers = bigger profits. automation and labor arbitrage. the assumption that big profits will result in US hiring is wrong. by the way, you would be surprised to know that Democrats are just as sold out to corporate interests as any Republican. Take a look at Obamas 'job czar'. Edited July 28, 2011 by mr_genius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 QUOTE (mr_genius @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 02:25 PM) actually, less US workers = bigger profits. automation and labor arbitrage. the assumption that big profits will result in US hiring is wrong. by the way, you would be surprised to know that Democrats are just as sold out to corporate interests as any Republican. Take a look at Obamas 'job czar'. So you're saying less taxes =/= more jobs, interesting because that's all I hear from conservatives. And I don't know why somebody always has to bring in the other party, as if it justifies the poor thoughts of the their own party. I was only talking about conservatives, and although I'm not giving liberals the pass on this (because I do believe they've done many a thing wrong too) that doesn't mean they should get mentioned as a defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 02:31 PM) So you're saying less taxes =/= more jobs, interesting because that's all I hear from conservatives. And I don't know why somebody always has to bring in the other party, as if it justifies the poor thoughts of the their own party. I was only talking about conservatives, and although I'm not giving liberals the pass on this (because I do believe they've done many a thing wrong too) that doesn't mean they should get mentioned as a defense. You explicitly mention 'conservatives' while leaving out the Democrat party in your queries as to 'why do they do this'. I was merely supplying the missing context for you. also, no, i do not think merely giving tax breaks to companies automatically creates jobs. I will direct you to the GE example again. Big tax breaks, lots of labor arbitrage. But on the other side of the coin, uncompetitive tax rates can hurt job creation. The trillion dollar question is what can be done to encourage US hiring. Edited July 28, 2011 by mr_genius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 12:50 PM) I love remarks that basically say "if we had the labor, health, and environmental standards of China, our employment situation would be fine." I love the ones that say if we had the social, taxation, and regulations of China, our employment situation would be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 QUOTE (mr_genius @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 02:35 PM) You explicitly mention 'conservatives' while leaving out the Democrat party in your queries as to 'why do they do this'. I was merely supplying the missing context for you. also, no, i do not think merely giving tax breaks to companies automatically creates jobs. I will direct you to the GE example again. Big tax breaks, lots of labor arbitrage. But on the other side of the coin, uncompetitive tax rates can hurt job creation. The trillion dollar question is what can be done to encourage US hiring. Because I was questioning the 'conservative' stance that keeps getting brought up here and in the media. I was curious about why people believe that the 'conservative' stance is the right one. I wasn't looking for a qualifier that the liberals are wrong so this is right. So then why do we keep hearing about how our tax rates are killing job growth? Isn't this just another argument that no one really has an answer to so we keep throwing s*** against a wall and seeing what sticks in the end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 02:51 PM) So then why do we keep hearing about how our tax rates are killing job growth? Isn't this just another argument that no one really has an answer to so we keep throwing s*** against a wall and seeing what sticks in the end? it's an argument by special interests that want tax breaks. most of the time when you hear some politician bulls***ting about something, they are just doing the bidding of some special interest that bribed them. but i think the US government is totally corrupt and bribed, so take my tin foil hat opinion for what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sir Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 07:15 PM) Would y'all endorse policies in favor of making it harder to outsource jobs? I thought that was supposed to be a great thing for the economy. Anyway, yeah, putting te head of ge in charge of "jobs" was idiotic. I would endorse policies that make it easier to not outsource jobs. Lower the minimum wage (or better yet, abolish it), give tax breaks to companies that keep jobs stateside, decrease taxes wherever possible etc. Do things that encourage companies to turn towards American labor. I fully support the right of the corporate world to find the most cost efficient labor available, whether it's here or somewhere else. And if it's somewhere else, then jobs are going to be outsourced and that's all there is to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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