Why do they hate us?

[StrangeSox]

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012...ate_us?page=0,3

 

It's not exactly a fun read, but it's a great article illuminating how far women still have to go in these cultures to be treated as even close to fully human.

 

Name me an Arab country, and I’ll recite a litany of abuses fueled by a toxic mix of culture and religion that few seem willing or able to disentangle lest they blaspheme or offend. When more than 90 percent of ever-married women in Egypt—including my mother and all but one of her six sisters—have had their genitals cut in the name of modesty, then surely we must all blaspheme. When Egyptian women are subjected to humiliating “virginity tests” merely for speaking out, it’s no time for silence. When an article in the Egyptian criminal code says that if a woman has been beaten by her husband “with good intentions” no punitive damages can be obtained, then to hell with political correctness. And what, pray tell, are “good intentions”? They are legally deemed to include any beating that is “not severe” or “directed at the face.” What all this means is that when it comes to the status of women in the Middle East, it’s not better than you think. It’s much, much worse. Even after these “revolutions,” all is more or less considered well with the world as long as women are covered up, anchored to the home, denied the simple mobility of getting into their own cars, forced to get permission from men to travel, and unable to marry without a male guardian’s blessing—or divorce either.

 

Not a single Arab country ranks in the top 100 in the World Economic Forum’s Global Gender Gap Report, putting the region as a whole solidly at the planet’s rock bottom. Poor or rich, we all hate our women. Neighbors Saudi Arabia and Yemen, for instance, might be eons apart when it comes to GDP, but only four places separate them on the index, with the kingdom at 131 and Yemen coming in at 135 out of 135 countries. Morocco, often touted for its “progressive” family law (a 2005 report by Western “experts” called it “an example for Muslim countries aiming to integrate into modern society”), ranks 129; according to Morocco’s Ministry of Justice, 41,098 girls under age 18 were married there in 2010.

 

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Jesus that's depressing.

[southsider2k5]

Jesus that's depressing.

 

And not a big surprise either.

[Jenksismyhero]

Where the hell are the fathers/brothers/uncles/other family members of these women? If my daughter ever got virgin tested by the police there would be hell to pay. What an ass-backwards part of the world.

[Reddy]

Where the hell are the fathers/brothers/uncles/other family members of these women? If my daughter ever got virgin tested by the police there would be hell to pay. What an ass-backwards part of the world.

Rick Santorum says hi.

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

Where the hell are the fathers/brothers/uncles/other family members of these women? If my daughter ever got virgin tested by the police there would be hell to pay. What an ass-backwards part of the world.

 

Because that's the way it works over there, fathers/brothers/uncles/etc. are probably just fine with that. There have been instances here in the US that male family members acted violently towards a female if it was even suspected that she was somehow dishonoring the family. That can be anything from hanging around with people they don't approve of to wearing clothes they don't like to sleeping around. It's hard for us to grasp how this can go on, but it's just as hard for them to understand our way of life, or for someone to understand the mindset of people that lived 200 years ago and were all about slavery.

 

I'm 100% sure if any of us were born and raised over there, we would see nothing wrong with it. I'm grateful that I wasn't.

[Jenksismyhero]

Rick Santorum says hi.

 

Lol, right. Because I could totally see Santorum ordering firefighters not to save a group of girls trapped in a burning building lest they get out into public without covering their faces.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Where the hell are the fathers/brothers/uncles/other family members of these women? If my daughter ever got virgin tested by the police there would be hell to pay. What an ass-backwards part of the world.

 

Great Amero-centric view of the world. To them you we are the ass-backwards part of the world for letting our women run around as whores. You can't just take your world view and apply it to another culture as a logical step. That is the kind of stuff that has gotten us in trouble with the rest of the world.

[Jenksismyhero]

Great Amero-centric view of the world. To them you we are the ass-backwards part of the world for letting our women run around as whores. You can't just take your world view and apply it to another culture as a logical step. That is the kind of stuff that has gotten us in trouble with the rest of the world.

 

But that's the disconnect for me - the most basic human instinct is survival and protection of your own blood. They've completely ignored that and choose culture over family.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Jenksismybitch

[GoSox05]

But that's the disconnect for me - the most basic human instinct is survival and protection of your own blood. They've completely ignored that and choose culture over family.

 

They also choose religion over everything.

[southsider2k5]

But that's the disconnect for me - the most basic human instinct is survival and protection of your own blood. They've completely ignored that and choose culture over family.

 

To them, that is family being valued first. It is a different world.

[StrangeSox]

Where the hell are the fathers/brothers/uncles/other family members of these women?

 

Oppressing women.

[Texsox]

They need US style pornography, that honors women like nothing else.

[StrangeSox]

Lol, right. Because I could totally see Santorum ordering firefighters not to save a group of girls trapped in a burning building lest they get out into public without covering their faces.

 

No, but I could see him outlawing contraception, shaming any sex outside of marriage and just generally enforcing a retrograde heavily patriarchal social order if he could. There's no reason to pretend that he doesn't hold extremist views.

[Soxbadger]

They need US style pornography, that honors women like nothing else.

 

I know this was sarcasm, but it is actually true.

 

Porn stars have the choice, they make a lot of money and they arent attacked or murdered for having sex/being naked/etc.

 

 

[StrangeSox]

I know this was sarcasm, but it is actually true.

 

Porn stars have the choice, they make a lot of money and they arent attacked or murdered for having sex/being naked/etc.

Theres still the whole aspect of exploitation there and the way porn can end up crafting sexual norms and expectations.

[Soxbadger]

You can argue there is exploitation with anything.

[StrangeSox]

You can argue there is exploitation with anything.

I don't mean the entire concept of porn and everyone who is involved, but I've no doubt that a fair number of young models are indeed exploited despite 'choosing.'

 

Larger issue of power structures and agency there, so I'll just say that, yeah, possible porn exploitation is a bit less troublesome than what women face in the ME.

 

Edit I won't agree that it honors women, though. It routinely portrays women as sexual objects for pleasure and not mutual partners.

Edited April 25, 2012 by StrangeSox

[Soxbadger]

Thats not the point.

 

In every industry there is exploitation of the worker. I see people get exploited all day long, in fact our entire society is built on the trying to exploit people (the natural end of capitalism). I assume you are trying to distinguish sex exploitation, but at the end of the day, in the US, thats just about money exploitation, with sex/looks being a talent.

 

If you are seriously saying that porn exploitation in the United States is "a bit less troublesome" that how women are treated in the ME,I am shocked.

 

Do you realize that in the ME women would be murdered for having sex on tv? That sadly isnt even hyperbole.

 

In the US if a girl is raped by a porn director, they could call the police. Now they may not for whatever reasons, but the police wouldnt show up and just say "Oh shes a girl, she has no rights."

 

Wow.

 

Here is an article about Iranian women posing nude in response to sexual repression in Iran.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-21...Womens-Day.html

Edited April 25, 2012 by Soxbadger

[Soxbadger]

Who cares about honoring women? (in the context of pornography)

 

Pornography is about selling a product. If honoring women made the most money that would be what was sold. Pornography is just a product, the product changes to suit the audience. For the most of history pornography and sex trade was male dominated as women didnt have rights. But now that women are equal, you will start to see the market for their type of pornography go up and more male prostitutes as well.

 

I wouldnt use pornography as a good way to teach any type of real life, its fantasy that sells.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Soxbadger

[StrangeSox]

Who cares about honoring women? (in the context of pornography)

 

Pornography is about selling a product. If honoring women made the most money that would be what was sold. Pornography is just a product, the product changes to suit the audience. For the most of history pornography and sex trade was male dominated as women didnt have rights. But now that women are equal, you will start to see the market for their type of pornography go up and more male prostitutes as well.

 

I wouldnt use pornography as a good way to teach any type of real life, its fantasy that sells.

You responded to tex making a sarcastic post about porn honoring women.

[StrangeSox]

Thats not the point.

 

In every industry there is exploitation of the worker. I see people get exploited all day long, in fact our entire society is built on the trying to exploit people (the natural end of capitalism). I assume you are trying to distinguish sex exploitation, but at the end of the day, in the US, thats just about money exploitation, with sex/looks being a talent.

 

If you are seriously saying that porn exploitation in the United States is "a bit less troublesome" that how women are treated in the ME,I am shocked.

 

Do you realize that in the ME women would be murdered for having sex on tv? That sadly isnt even hyperbole.

 

In the US if a girl is raped by a porn director, they could call the police. Now they may not for whatever reasons, but the police wouldnt show up and just say "Oh shes a girl, she has no rights."

 

Wow.

 

Here is an article about Iranian women posing nude in response to sexual repression in Iran.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-21...Womens-Day.html

 

That was intentionally an understatement!

 

[Soxbadger]

You responded to tex making a sarcastic post about porn honoring women.

 

Right they are 2 different ideas. The fact that women can make millions of dollars on pornography in the United States is what I was commenting on, not the content of the videos actually honoring women.

 

I guess the point I was making is that for a long time in society, women who were paid to take their clothes off were socially stigmatized etc. In the United States they can make a lot of money.

 

Giving women the freedom to do whatever they want is honoring them (imo).

[StrangeSox]

Women are still stigmatized as sluts or whores if they take their clothes off for money (or even possibly enjoy premarital sex like that prostitute/slut Sandra Fluke!).

 

I understand what you're saying, though.

[cabiness42]

They need US style pornography, that honors women like nothing else.

 

If you work in the porn industry, are pictures of people with clothes on considered NSFW?