Chisoxfn

Wasn't that park built like 35 years ago or so?

SN Report: Job in Jeopardy For Underachieving Koch By Mario Scalise July 5, 2003 SoxNet.net (SN Report #555) - Wanted: A Closer. Unfortunately for Billy Koch, it has come to this as after blowing his fourth save in Friday night's 4-3 loss to the Devil Rays, manager Jerry Manuel is now re-evaluating the pen and the closer situation. Koch, 28, has had an up-and-down season; showing flashes of dominace on some days, while showing a flat 90-MPH fastball on most days. It all has led to a poor 5.30 ERA and just 11 saves in 15 chances, which isn't bad if you were to ignore the 56 baserunners he's allowed in less than 40 appearances and 37 1/3 innings. Koch has not allowed a baserunner in just 12 of those outings, an amount far too high for a closer expected to shutdown the opposition in close games. The erratic Koch is on pace to save just 21 games and blow eight, which would be career low's for the right-hander whose lowest save total of 31 came back in his rookie year of 1999. Koch had a 144 career saves in four season's heading into this season. Manuel has not officially bounced Koch from the closer role, but reports have Tom Gordon getting the next few chances. Koch was acquired over the off-season, along with lefty prospect Neal Cotts and outfielder Daylan Holt, from the Oakland A's for Keith Foulke, catcher Mark Johnson and minor league closer Joe Valentine.

Ginter is a good relief prospect, imo and I am waiting for him to get his opportunity. I think he sticks the next time he comes up. Hummel at worse is going to be a very solid utility man. He'll be in the majors next year (With the Sox or if its with someone else).

Koch in the 6th or 7th would be a really nice option. The flaw is the Sox are paying him so much money. I really don't know whats going on, but I do think Jeff Weaver would be a great addition to this club. He's a great pitcher. Still, no way should Cotts be involved. I still think a Koch for Weaver deal makes more sense, but I guess the idea is Wright will either go to the closers role or replace Gordon while Koch probably co-closes with Marte. Wunsch should be back up soon, which will strengthen the pen and then the Sox could deal Glover and maybe Munoz and even Majewski for a good reliever that the Sox could keep for a long time. I wouldn't give up Arnie unless we got a long term solution. Then instead of us worrying so much about after next year, we'd have the ability to lose Colon, yet still have 4 good starters (Buehrle, Loaiza, Garland, and Weaver). We'd have a damn good young closer (Danny Wright or Damaso) and we'd have a good young reliever in the pen (No idea who, but there are always quality middle relievers out there; Lightenberg wouldn't be too bad or someone like Jorge Julio). But who knows. I do think a Konerko, Glover, and Munoz move could get the Sox Ponson and a good reliever. Then you'd insert Ponson to the rotation and have Weaver, Wright, Koch, Marte and someone like Ligthenberg or Julio, Wunsch, and White in the pen. Thats a hell of a pen and a heck of a rotation. Rotation and Pen could each eat innings. Then if Colon walks, you have Weaver come in and replace him and resign the cheaper Ponson, giving you a 5 man rotation next season. I'm sure none of this makes sense, so to highlight, I'd go with my option two. Trade Gordon for Weaver (Yanks eat a lot of his salary and no way do they give them Cotts; They hold out and worse case give them someone like Brian Cooper or Ryan Meaux). Trade Paul Konerko, Gary Glover, and Arnie Munoz for Sidney Ponson (Whom we resign if we can't re-up with Colon or they could resign; Also give Sox money to resign Alomar as Konerko makes a TON) and Kerry Ligthenberg (32 Yrs Old; 3.13 ERA in 31.2 Innings of work) or add Jon Rauch into the package and get Jorge Julio (18 Saves and you insert him as closer or set up man to Damaso Marte). At 24, I think its really a hard move. Sox may not have to give up Munoz to get Lightenberg, they could go with Ginter or maybe even Majewski.

This move doesn't make sense if the Sox give up Cotts. If its Tom Gordon for Jeff Weaver it does make sense. To me it would mean two things: 1. The Sox believe Dan Wright would be a good closer, and they will replace Gordon's role in the pen with Koch 2. The Sox believe Jeff Weaver is a closer and Koch would replace Flash in the pen. Personally I believe in option one, cause I think Jeff Weaver is a very good starter. But I've said this so many times lately. The kid isn't afraid to pitch inside and is an old school ballplayer. This is the same kid that was absolutely dominant for a poor team like the Tigers and he still has the dynamite stuff and is very young. Its also a good move in the long run (As long as no Cotts) because the Sox will get a guy that can be in the rotation a long time, as he's signed through 2005. I'm assuming if this is the trade being made, its because Reinsdorf doesn't want Williams to add salary so he is going to have to give something up so the Yanks will pay the majority of Weaver's contract. Another outside idea in this, is the Sox will move Wright to a setup role and are going to swap Koch for Armando Benitez. Personally I'd rather have Benitez. He's a good closer and maybe the change of scenery would do both some good. The flaw is the Mets wouldnt' really want Koch in return, but they want to get rid of Armando. Another possibility is that the Sox will take Weaver and move him to the Rangers for Urbina or for another closer.

I have no idea why it doesn't work for you Mike. I remember telling you so many things too and nothing worked. It probably is just you have something switched off that needs to be on, but I don't know Explorer or this software well enough. Sorry man.

I think the quotes you read were taken out of context. The book doesn't really make it so a team is afraid of him in all honesty. Actually, I think a lot of gm's believe they could really beat Beane. I think Beane gave us Cotts because Cotts tended to walk guys and I do think Cotts is going to be a very solid pitcher. Beane just has a philosphy on closers, that I completely agree with, you can build their value. A nobody will get a lot of saves (See Rocky Biddle, although I like Rockmeister a lot). But now after this season the Expos could deal Rocky and his value will be very inflated soley cause he was the closer. Fact is a lot of people can do the job.

That wouldn't happen. If they deal for Weaver it would be a Koch for Weaver deal. Adding Weaver and giving up one of your best relievers in Tom, who also doesn't make much money wouldn't make any sense from the White Sox perspective. Now if you move Koch and pick up Weaver you kind of swap even salaries and I think you get a little more in return. I also have no doubt that Jeff Weaver would be a very very good #5 guy with Wright in the pen. I don't think they would immediately move Wright to closer, but maybe they've talked to him about that. If they've talked to him about it, I guess it would be fine to just go for it. I just think it would be awfully risky. Then again, if a guy can pitch he should be able to do it anywhere, imo. And if the Sox really wanted to bolster their pitching core, they could do a Ponson for Konerko swap and a Koch for Weaver swap and go with Weaver and Wright in the pen, giving them two very good long guys and then swap Glover and a prospect for a good set up type guy with Tom and Marte closing. Don't know how much sense it would make to use Weaver out of the pen though, I happen to love him as a starter, but it would give the Sox a ton of arms. Then when they lose Colon they have Weaver and resign Ponson and those two step into the rotation. So the moves solidify the team this year and in the future.

In all honesty seeing how fast trades come together, I'm surprised other GM's haven't made that mistake. I mean Billy Beane made a trade in 15 minutes time simply by flipping through some books looking up players stats and he didn't even know a thing about the guys.

Ya, I just posted a short blurb of that too. Rupe is the one I'd take on that list, although I like Pacheco a lot. If I were the Rangers I'd go with Rupe, Pacheco and Diaz if I was allowed to take those three.

Is the eight man of the list. Rick Hummel is not on the list. According to the Trib, Rupe and Webster is who the Rangers are intrigued at. If they take Webster, they can only take on other and the same goes for Yan and I'd guess Pacheco. They can't take two of the players on the first list. They can take three from list two, or one from list one and one from list two.

Miller has been coming along while Munoz is getting ripped again.

When the Cubs acquired him he was considered simply a first baseman/left fielder so I doubt he has too much range in center, but the guy must be versatile. Doesn't sound like he'd be that bad of a bench guy to be honest. He could be one of those guys that finally makes it up and can come up wtih some big clutch hits off the bench for a few years. Kind of like how the Yankees pull up some nobodies out of the minors every once in a while that do real good.

What Flingz said. Thats of course if your using internet explorer.

I truly believe Koch is hurt. While I know he has no movement, he can kind of get away with it when he has a 97 MPH heater and a couple lesser speed pitches so guys can't sit on one pitch. I think Manuel has it right. I really think Koch is a battler and at the end of the season we'll see him go under the knife.

Well, you could trade Koch for Weaver and someone and then move Wright to the bullpen. See how he handles one and two innings stints and then turn him into the closer. The only thing is its rather risky to turn him to a closer midseason with the Sox in the race. I do agree that he has what it takes to close. Unfortunately, this season I don't think Wright has been all that good early on. He seems to give up his runs in the first couple innings and then absolutely dominate as the game goes on. Of course he has such a high pitch count by the 6th inning that its hard for him to go deep into games. Rauch is the only one that could be ready and he's currently on the DL, so an in house replacement in the rotation just wouldn't work.

Nirvana was freaking awesome. At least you have Dave Grohl with Foo Fighters and QOS.

Yep, Mike is right. Thats why I always say we'd make good Co-Gms. He can be the statitician and tell me who has the great stats. Then I'll be like the old time scouts and be like, but that guy has breasts.

Come on everybody, lets just chill. To utter some famous words; "Can't We All Just Get Along".

While todays game sucks, it is just 1 out of 162 games. Were right there, and have just acquired two very good hitters. The starting pitching is really good and we have a pretty solid bullpen, its just in need of an additional swing man and a healthy Koch. No one is going to tell me there isn't something wrong with Koch. Still, the guy does have decent numbers since the start of the season (Under 3 last 24 or so). I just am worried that something is wrong with him. Things get bad, but this team is still good and they will bounce back. I'm very confident in that fact. Yes, this game sucked horribly, but whether we lose 20-0 or in this fashion its still a loss and thats that. The Sox can't think about this one, but only put it aside and win the next two and take the series and then move onto the next. We aren't going to win them all, the Sox are going to blow games, and thats the fact. This is the one that sucks cause the Sox let it slip away, but hte fact is they played damn good ball for 8 innings (The Sox) and one bad inning. The talent and team is there and they will win, they will go deep.

It has to do with your cookies I'm guessing. You'll want to delete your cookies. Then it should work perfect.

And in case ya don't know Cotts, the green is for sarcasm.

Huh

This is a big loss cause its against Tampa Bay. Sox had the chance to get one game over .500 I am a big Koch backer, but I'm scared s***less because he has no movement and its really hard to get away with that at 88 MPH. I'd really like to swing a deal for Urbina and unload Koch somewhere else.

f***. Koch gets rocked. Fastball was being clocked around 88