Chisoxfn

I'd go with a day off, cause he needs one if not two or three.

This looks like a good lineup.

Well it depends on where Cotts misses. Since I haven't seen the kid pitch its only on numbers and second hand stuff from people like Rex. If this kid is missing low, then I'm not super worried. Control problems get to you if your all over the place and finding the fat part of the plate. While I'm not saying Cotts doesn't have control issues, cause he does, and to me that is the one thing holding him back from becoming a top top flight left handed pitching prospect in baseball (Not only the Sox organization). And if you want to see something, look at the strikeout numbers he puts up. He has foul movement on all his pitches and flat knows how to pitch. I have to agree with Rex here, he will gain control. Now if we had an offer of Javier Vazquez for Cotts straight-up, then I'd do it as long as the Sox weren't gonna get rid of Javier.

I'm down with you on that. I'm surprised you didn't buy into the stat that hits are basically luck, the key is keeping the ball out of play. I think that idea is a bunch of crap, cause if good pitchers, especially a good sinkerballer hits his spots, then there is no luck in giving up hits. Its typically luck that a squibber gets through.

DO NOT DO THIS. Trust me, as i speak from experience. Tickets to the Sox game: 20 Bucks Hot Dog, Beer, and Nachos: 15 Bucks Making Some Nuts Dreams Come Through...Pricessless Heather, key word to this is NUT. It can't be worth it. Think of it this way. You need the money, he wants ya badly. Don't be tempted by his scheme to get you with 20 buck Sox tickets, and if he pulls any crap about it, you get a lawyer and sue him for sexual harrasment (Thats if he fires you for this). My guess is he isn't stupid enough to do it, but if he is, then it is wrong and he deserves to be sued. If you sue him, you don't have to worry about money for a car

Olivo won't make it yet. Typically it takes a year or two till a guy gets that kind of respect unless he's on a big time team. Plus his playing time is limited. Don't fret though, he will win a few before he retires. I also think we'll see him make big strides over the next few years at the plate. The one thing I worry about is his loss of strike zone judgement. In the past I always thought of him as a guy with good judgement, but I haven't seen it at all lately.

You can finally drive. Congrats and Happy Birthday. Sox better not lose to the DRays on your bday. Have a rootbeer on me

No, I don't think they should drive. I have no problem with them driving as long as they actually have insurance and such, simply because its not a right granted simply to Americans. Now if for some reason I have to pay taxes because of it, then screw it. Yep, I hate paying taxes. This damn state spends, spends and spends more and thats why they still are struggling to figure out their damn budget. I can not wait to cast a vote to recall Gray Davis and to elect the Terminator. Davis is calling for plans to increase taxes, increase spending, and increase Vehichle registration, something that is already 3 times higher then it is in any other state. Enough is enough, get someone in charge the understands economics and can get things in shape. California has a larger deficit than all the rest of the states combined, yet when Davis was elected it had the bigger surplus. Sure blame the economy, but the housing markets here continue to grow and grow and grow, which has really lessened the recession to the point that this should never of happened. I'm so sick of Davis. He was caught campaigning when he had a bill on his desk (Against the Law) and all he does with that money is smear other politicians who want to run against him. I know thats what politicians do or at least some of them, but this guy has no ability to run a state and shouldn't be running the state. Why the voters were so stupid to elect a guy that they didn't approve of is beyond me, but he would never of won if the other candidates weren't so afraid of what parts of their past he'd bring up. Afterall, thats why Arnold backed out.

Why did i open this thread. We need a smiley with a hand scratching its eyes off.

What are his combined numbers from W-S and Birmingham? I had to take my shoes off to count this high, but here are his combined numbers..... Avg. R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS .371 52 106 22 2 7 60 45 21 34 10 Played 25 games in CF Played 54 games in RF Damn I love how few K's he has compared with walks. This guy screams 2 hole/3 hole hitter.

Only question with Nachreiner is his health. Guy has pretty much no knees so the Sox took a huge gamble on him. First round arm, first round stuff, but doctors have constantly told him he won't be able to pitch. The Sox feel with medicine making advances the way they are, just to take a shot. They spent 200,000 on him and I'd say its worth the risk. What does anyone know about Bounds? I hadn't heard of him until this year after I read some articles saying he has massive power. I'm assuming he was drafted in the latter rounds last year? Either way he's looking like a potential legite prospect. The only thing is, its hard to tell with Great Falls cause the park is supposed to be an absolute band-box. Nanita is looking like a stud pick. Also, great game for Reed and Guillermo Reyes. Pedro Lopez is doing pretty darn good too with the average over .275. I'd say Lopez is a better prospect than Yan now, and its part of the reason Yan was on that list with the Rangers. Right now Lopez and Gonzalez are the big middle infield guys at the lower levels with Valido very talented, but still only part of a season thus far. Sucks Adkins got hit. This must of been his first bad start in a while. Thanks for the updates Cerb and Hudler.

Ya, I think 3 are from the 1st pool. I think Yan, Webster and Diaz are in that group. Thats just a guess.

Pacheco is a guy thats really shooting up the charts. I'm hoping that the Rangers miss him. The great thing is that I really think Ken Williams has a good plan. Highlight the prospects he and the scouts really like and then the rest are pretty much bait. To me thats a great plan cause only so many pan out and the rest fade away, so its best to take advantage of that as best you can. Hype everyone, keep only the very best. Considering the Sox are very taletned in the area of the draft, they should always have new pools coming in. As guys move through the system, you filter the worse out and know when the time is ready, you can move them to improve the team and they will have a lot of value. With Guys like Reed, Cotts, Honel you know those are extra special and you hold onto them for dear life, the rest you just let go for younger guys and you know you can get prospects back for the guys you can acquire if need by. When you look at it, a lot of the huge trades where prospects go for a superstar, its almost always the case that the team that gets the superstar wins.

When I was making updates to the site (trying to catch up from the stuff I missed while on vacation) the idea hit me. What can I say Mike, great minds think alike, even if I don't like stats too much. I got to say, your making me look more at stats though. Only ones I really care about are, ERA, K/BB ratio, K per inning pitched and hits an inning (Although some could argue hits per inning is just a luck stat, see: MoneyBall)

I'm with you. Despite my "over-hyped" remarks on Diaz he has really been turning it on over the past month. Just a guess, but his ERA around that time has to be around 2.00 (I don't know where to find that type of info), but it dropped drastically from the last set of stats I had which was about a month ago. He has very good stuff and seems to have better control then most. Still, I do think his strikeout numbers could be better considering, but on the plus side he seems to know how to pitch and I agree he could definately be of help. I'm a huge Rupe fan. In all honesty Yan, one of my favorite prospects (I love speed) is one of the guys that I hope is selected and I wouldn't even mind losing Webster and him (not that the Rangers will take two hitters), simply because their is so much depth their. Rupe has the shot to be a damn good closer, a position that is very costly, so its nice to have cheap relief help. If you notice, lower payroll teams, typically have weaker bullpens cause all the pieces there don't cost much. I've always noticed how Williams builds up with a lot of relief arms and I think he has a plan in his mind that having a ton of arms to insert there keeps the overall cost of the team down and you can just keep rotating next people and build their "value up" and then move them for younger talent (Like Beane says, closers are way over-rated and I agree with him on that).

The Prospect List Revealed By Jason Gage July 5, 2003 FutureSox.com July 1st, 2003 was a busy day for the Sox organization as they acquired Roberto Alomar and Carl Everett. We all knew the Sox gave up Royce Ring, Edwin Almonte and Andrew Salvo for Alomar, but all were confused on what was given up for Carl Everett. The confusion is still there, but the list has now been revealed with Anthony Webster being the best prospect on the list. The rest of the list includes: Ruddy Yan (2B), Josh Rupe (RHP), Corwin Malone (LHP), Felix Diaz (RHP), Wyatt Allen (RHP), Frankie Fransisco (RHP) and Emencio Pacheco (RHP). The Rangers are allowed to select either two or three players. If they select a player from the first list they will be allowed to select one player from the second list. To get three players, they would have to select three from the 2nd list. Where this players fit on the lists is unknown, at this point in time. Now that we know the terms, lets take a little closer look at each prospect: 1. Anthony Webster, 20 - CF - Bats: Left - Throws: Right - Kannapolis Intimidators (Low-A Ball) 2003 (Kannapolis): .296 AVG, 1 HR, 25 RBI, 18 SB, 27 BB, 49 K 2002 (Bristol): .352 AVG, 1 HR, 30 RBI, 16 SB, 38 BB, 38 K 2001 (Arizona White Sox): .307 AVG, 0 HR, 30 RBI, 18 SB, 9 BB, 33 K Webster was rated as the #3 prospect in the organization by FutureSox and Baseball America, but he became expendable after the 2003 draft and the absolute dominance of Jeremy Reed. Reed is a centerfielder that was recently promoted to Birmingham and is on the fast track to US Cellular. In the draft the Sox took outfielders Bryan Anderson, Ryan Sweeney, and Clint King with the first three picks. They also got a very raw, yet talented outfielder in Ricardo Nanita (14th Round), who many compare to Anthony Webster. Webster is a very talented outfielder. Many scouts believe he has five-tool skills, but I question his ability to become a power hitter. Expect him to see the majors until 2006. 2. Josh Rupe, 20 - RHP, RP – Kannapolis Intimidators (Low A Ball) 2003: 4-4, 6 SV, 2.73 ERA, 52.2 INN, 58 K, 30 BB 2002 (Bristol-R): 3-3, 5.26 ERA, 38 INN, 40 K, 22 BB While Webster is the most talked about prospect on the list, Rupe may be the best, considering the Rangers need...pitching. The loss of Ring leaves Rupe as the top closer prospect in the White Sox system featuring a great fastball and an amazing curveball. Despite the great stuff, Rupe is a project, who has to develop a more consistent delivery/arm slot. 3. Ruddy Yan, 21 – S/R – 2B – Winston Salem Warthogs (High A Ball) 2003: .298 AVG, 1 HR, 18 RBI, 47 SB, 32 BB, 49 K 2002 (Winston Salem-A): .253 AVG, 4 HR, 35 RBI, 88 SB, 42 BB, 57 K 2001 (Hickory-A): .283 AVG, 2 HR, 24 RBI, 56 SB 2000 (Bradenton-R): .357 AVG, 0 HR, 1 RBI, 5 SB 1999 (Dominican Pirates-R): .300 AVG, 3 HR, 21 RBI, 48 SB Previously ranked as the 11th best prospect by FutureSox, Yan is a speedy second baseman that could have a future in the majors. That future depends on his ability to hit. He seemed to end those doubts by starting off the season on a tear, but since then he has fallen into a huge slump. Yan is repeating the league so his status as a top prospect is dwindling and will continue to dwindle until he is promoted to Birmingham and proves he can hit AA pitchers. Despite having great speed, losing Yan wouldn't be huge as the Sox have some other very raw, but good, infield prospects. 4. Felix Diaz, 23 - RHP, SP - Charlotte Knights (AAA) 2003 (Charlotte-AAA): 3-5, 3.54 ERA, 73.2 IP, 47 K, 25 BB 2002 (Birmingham-AA): 4-0, 3.48 ERA, 31.0 IP, 30 K, 8 BB 2002 (Shreveport): 3-5, 2.70 ERA, 60.0 IP, 48 K, 23 BB 2001 (Hagerstown): 1-4, 3.66 ERA, 51.2 IP, 56 K, 16 BB 2001 (Arizona Giants): 3-4, 4.16 ERA, 62.2 IP, 58 K, 16 BB 2000 (Salem-Kaizer): 0-1, 8.10 ERA, 3.1 IP, 2 K, 1 BB 1999 (Dominican Giants): 0-0, 0.75 ERA, 12.0 IP, 19 K, 7 BB 1998 (Dominican Giants): 0-4, 7.55 ERA, 39.1 IP, 34 K, 26 BB Diaz is the only prospect on this list that is "Major League Ready". That doesn't mean he'll be sucessful, but he has spent enough time at AAA to warrant a callup. What the numbers don't tell you is that Diaz has a dynamite arm. He throws a mid-90's fastball and has a good changeup and slider. Despite the great stuff Diaz has never had a great K ratio, which tells me that he may be one of those guys thats "over-hyped". 5. Corwin Malone, 22 – LHP, SP – Birmingham Barons (AA) 2003: 2-2, 7.16 ERA, 27.2 INN, 17 K, 24 BB 2002 (Birmingham-AA): 10-7, 4.71 ERA, 124.1 INN, 89 K, 89 BB 2001 (Birmingham-AA): 2-0, 2.33 ERA, 19.1 INN, 20 K, 12 BB 2001 (Winston Salem-A): 0-1, 1.72 ERA, 36.2 INN, 38 K, 10 BB 2001 (Kannapolis-A): 11-4, 2.00 ERA, 112.1 INN, 119 K, 44 BB 2000 (Burlington-A): 2-3, 4.90 ERA, 71.2 INN, 82 K, 72 BB 1999 (Arizona-R): 0-2, 18.00 ERA, 18.0 INN, 24 K, 19 BB Malone was once one of the best left-handed pitching prospects in the game. Now, he finds himself on the disabled list and when he isn't there, he finds himself behind in the count (ie, control trouble). Malone is very raw and does have good stuff, but right now he doesn't rate in the Top 20 on the minor league depth chart. 6. Frankie Francisco, 23 - RHP, SP – Winston-Salem Warthogs (High A Ball) 2003: 6-3, 3.69 ERA, 68.1 INN, 60 K, 31 BB Fransisco has put up very good numbers for the Warthogs, but is old for the league. Fransisco does have a good fastball (mid 90's), but is just a marginal prospect until he proves himself at higher levels. He was ranked 22 by FutureSox. 7. Enemencio Pacheco, 24 – RHP, SP – Birmingham Barons (AA) 2003: 6-2, 2.80 ERA, 83.2 INN, 66 K, 31 BB 2002 (Winston Salem-A): 1-1, 4.74 ERA, 24.2 INN, 24 K, 8 BB 2002 (Salem-A): 2-2, 3.16 ERA, 51.1, 31 K, 26 BB 2001 (Salem-A): 4-2, 4.68 ERA, 42.1 INN, 29 K, 18 BB 2001 (Asheville-A): 1-2, 4.21 ERA, 36.1 INN, 34 K, 9 BB 2000 (Asheville-A): 8-10, 3.69 ERA, 117.0 INN, 79 K, 35 BB 1999 (Asheville-A): 3-9, 5.29 ERA, 85.0 INN, 59 K, 29 BB 1999 (Portland-A): 4-3, 3.95 ERA, 73.0 INN, 44 K, 21 BB 1998 (Asheville-A): 0-0, 6.75 ERA, 4.0 INN, 2 K, 1 BB 1998 (Az Rockies-R): 5-0, 3.99 ERA, 58.2 INN, 59 K, 17 BB 1997 (Dominican Rockies-R): 1-6, 5.26 ERA, 51.1 INN, 39 K, 22 BB While Rupe is on the list, Pacheco may be the best one for the Rangers to select. Armed with a live fastball and hard slider, Pacheco has very good stuff and is constantly moving up the prospect charts with his success in Birmingham thus far. The big difference in Pacheco this year is the addition of an off-speed pitch, something that is still a work in progress. Ranked 17th by FutureSox. 8. Wyatt Allen, 23 - RHP, SP – Winston-Salem Warthogs (High A Ball) 2003: 6-3, 3.21 ERA, 87.0 INN, 56 K, 59 BB 2002 (Charlotte-AAA): 0-1, 9.00 ERA, 5.0 INN, 2 K, 6 BB 2002 (Winston-Salem-A): 8-9, 4.45 ERA, 161.2 INN, 110 K, 80 BB 2001 (Kannapolis-A): 4-5, 3.16 ERA, 62.2 INN, 45 K, 16 BB Wyatt had one of the best arms in the 2001 draft, but mechanical flaws led him to slip all the way to the 39th pick. Two years later Allen is still a project and his arm is still "for real". He can throw the ball in the upper 90's (97), but has trouble finding the strikezone. Allen has shown progress recently, and could finally be on the verge.

Wasn't that park built like 35 years ago or so?

SN Report: Job in Jeopardy For Underachieving Koch By Mario Scalise July 5, 2003 SoxNet.net (SN Report #555) - Wanted: A Closer. Unfortunately for Billy Koch, it has come to this as after blowing his fourth save in Friday night's 4-3 loss to the Devil Rays, manager Jerry Manuel is now re-evaluating the pen and the closer situation. Koch, 28, has had an up-and-down season; showing flashes of dominace on some days, while showing a flat 90-MPH fastball on most days. It all has led to a poor 5.30 ERA and just 11 saves in 15 chances, which isn't bad if you were to ignore the 56 baserunners he's allowed in less than 40 appearances and 37 1/3 innings. Koch has not allowed a baserunner in just 12 of those outings, an amount far too high for a closer expected to shutdown the opposition in close games. The erratic Koch is on pace to save just 21 games and blow eight, which would be career low's for the right-hander whose lowest save total of 31 came back in his rookie year of 1999. Koch had a 144 career saves in four season's heading into this season. Manuel has not officially bounced Koch from the closer role, but reports have Tom Gordon getting the next few chances. Koch was acquired over the off-season, along with lefty prospect Neal Cotts and outfielder Daylan Holt, from the Oakland A's for Keith Foulke, catcher Mark Johnson and minor league closer Joe Valentine.

Ginter is a good relief prospect, imo and I am waiting for him to get his opportunity. I think he sticks the next time he comes up. Hummel at worse is going to be a very solid utility man. He'll be in the majors next year (With the Sox or if its with someone else).

Koch in the 6th or 7th would be a really nice option. The flaw is the Sox are paying him so much money. I really don't know whats going on, but I do think Jeff Weaver would be a great addition to this club. He's a great pitcher. Still, no way should Cotts be involved. I still think a Koch for Weaver deal makes more sense, but I guess the idea is Wright will either go to the closers role or replace Gordon while Koch probably co-closes with Marte. Wunsch should be back up soon, which will strengthen the pen and then the Sox could deal Glover and maybe Munoz and even Majewski for a good reliever that the Sox could keep for a long time. I wouldn't give up Arnie unless we got a long term solution. Then instead of us worrying so much about after next year, we'd have the ability to lose Colon, yet still have 4 good starters (Buehrle, Loaiza, Garland, and Weaver). We'd have a damn good young closer (Danny Wright or Damaso) and we'd have a good young reliever in the pen (No idea who, but there are always quality middle relievers out there; Lightenberg wouldn't be too bad or someone like Jorge Julio). But who knows. I do think a Konerko, Glover, and Munoz move could get the Sox Ponson and a good reliever. Then you'd insert Ponson to the rotation and have Weaver, Wright, Koch, Marte and someone like Ligthenberg or Julio, Wunsch, and White in the pen. Thats a hell of a pen and a heck of a rotation. Rotation and Pen could each eat innings. Then if Colon walks, you have Weaver come in and replace him and resign the cheaper Ponson, giving you a 5 man rotation next season. I'm sure none of this makes sense, so to highlight, I'd go with my option two. Trade Gordon for Weaver (Yanks eat a lot of his salary and no way do they give them Cotts; They hold out and worse case give them someone like Brian Cooper or Ryan Meaux). Trade Paul Konerko, Gary Glover, and Arnie Munoz for Sidney Ponson (Whom we resign if we can't re-up with Colon or they could resign; Also give Sox money to resign Alomar as Konerko makes a TON) and Kerry Ligthenberg (32 Yrs Old; 3.13 ERA in 31.2 Innings of work) or add Jon Rauch into the package and get Jorge Julio (18 Saves and you insert him as closer or set up man to Damaso Marte). At 24, I think its really a hard move. Sox may not have to give up Munoz to get Lightenberg, they could go with Ginter or maybe even Majewski.

This move doesn't make sense if the Sox give up Cotts. If its Tom Gordon for Jeff Weaver it does make sense. To me it would mean two things: 1. The Sox believe Dan Wright would be a good closer, and they will replace Gordon's role in the pen with Koch 2. The Sox believe Jeff Weaver is a closer and Koch would replace Flash in the pen. Personally I believe in option one, cause I think Jeff Weaver is a very good starter. But I've said this so many times lately. The kid isn't afraid to pitch inside and is an old school ballplayer. This is the same kid that was absolutely dominant for a poor team like the Tigers and he still has the dynamite stuff and is very young. Its also a good move in the long run (As long as no Cotts) because the Sox will get a guy that can be in the rotation a long time, as he's signed through 2005. I'm assuming if this is the trade being made, its because Reinsdorf doesn't want Williams to add salary so he is going to have to give something up so the Yanks will pay the majority of Weaver's contract. Another outside idea in this, is the Sox will move Wright to a setup role and are going to swap Koch for Armando Benitez. Personally I'd rather have Benitez. He's a good closer and maybe the change of scenery would do both some good. The flaw is the Mets wouldnt' really want Koch in return, but they want to get rid of Armando. Another possibility is that the Sox will take Weaver and move him to the Rangers for Urbina or for another closer.

I have no idea why it doesn't work for you Mike. I remember telling you so many things too and nothing worked. It probably is just you have something switched off that needs to be on, but I don't know Explorer or this software well enough. Sorry man.

I think the quotes you read were taken out of context. The book doesn't really make it so a team is afraid of him in all honesty. Actually, I think a lot of gm's believe they could really beat Beane. I think Beane gave us Cotts because Cotts tended to walk guys and I do think Cotts is going to be a very solid pitcher. Beane just has a philosphy on closers, that I completely agree with, you can build their value. A nobody will get a lot of saves (See Rocky Biddle, although I like Rockmeister a lot). But now after this season the Expos could deal Rocky and his value will be very inflated soley cause he was the closer. Fact is a lot of people can do the job.

That wouldn't happen. If they deal for Weaver it would be a Koch for Weaver deal. Adding Weaver and giving up one of your best relievers in Tom, who also doesn't make much money wouldn't make any sense from the White Sox perspective. Now if you move Koch and pick up Weaver you kind of swap even salaries and I think you get a little more in return. I also have no doubt that Jeff Weaver would be a very very good #5 guy with Wright in the pen. I don't think they would immediately move Wright to closer, but maybe they've talked to him about that. If they've talked to him about it, I guess it would be fine to just go for it. I just think it would be awfully risky. Then again, if a guy can pitch he should be able to do it anywhere, imo. And if the Sox really wanted to bolster their pitching core, they could do a Ponson for Konerko swap and a Koch for Weaver swap and go with Weaver and Wright in the pen, giving them two very good long guys and then swap Glover and a prospect for a good set up type guy with Tom and Marte closing. Don't know how much sense it would make to use Weaver out of the pen though, I happen to love him as a starter, but it would give the Sox a ton of arms. Then when they lose Colon they have Weaver and resign Ponson and those two step into the rotation. So the moves solidify the team this year and in the future.

In all honesty seeing how fast trades come together, I'm surprised other GM's haven't made that mistake. I mean Billy Beane made a trade in 15 minutes time simply by flipping through some books looking up players stats and he didn't even know a thing about the guys.