Chisoxfn

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:48 PM) We needed position players. We needed to target those types of players. Some pitching is fine. Almost all pitching is terrible. That is our problem now. How is that fixing anything? I mean apparently the plan is to keep doing the exact same thing we have been doing, but it is great because it will be new players doing it? Blah. I hate this so much. Trading Sale & Q, we had no pitching. You can't just do the exact opposite. What you need is an infusion of talent and RH just got three guys in this trade who all profile as major leaguers, two of which profile as potential front of the rotation guys and the other could be a starter or a closer. That is fantastic. Oh and again, this is just one move...nothing is done yet and they also will have money to add.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:43 PM) The concern now for teams that want #WhiteSox's Quintana: The acquisition cost will be exorbitant, given what CWS pulled off last two days. https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/806629361675882499 Haha. Good. Of course media loved some of our recent off-seasons too and we know how that worked out. I am hoping (for my own greed), that we see another two hauls come soon (for Jones & Q).

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:37 PM) I mean, I wouldn't trade him for salary relief alone either, I'd want 1 quality prospect of some sort back, but a pick between rounds 2 and 3 isn't something we should be worrying about whatsoever. I'm just saying, there is a minimum we have to be willing to accept, cause there absolutely is value to the draft pick. I'd want an Austin Barnes type player in return (guy who we think has a shot at being at least a league average starter and probably another arm or something to go with it...probably pen arm as you aren't going to get a starter with upside to boot).

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:36 PM) We HAD to get position players. That is what got us into this mess in the first place. You couldn't not get pitching prospects back, either. We needed a massive talent infusion. More should be coming and obviously we also have a full year of Timmy Anderson and hopefully Collins on there way soon too (and obviously Tillson will get a chance too).

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:26 PM) Dude I'm as excited as I've been in years. To me it feels like the early 90s again. Sox are loading up on young talent and if they can get a few studs out of like they did then it will set them up for a great run in the next decade. I get that you're disappointing to see favorites go but ripping the bandaid off has long been overdue on this roster. And in 5 years, when we are ready to win the series...we will have a lockout (I'm somewhat serious when i post this).

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:26 PM) Dude I'm as excited as I've been in years. To me it feels like the early 90s again. Sox are loading up on young talent and if they can get a few studs out of like they did then it will set them up for a great run in the next decade. I get that you're disappointing to see favorites go but ripping the bandaid off has long been overdue on this roster. I hated watching a team of hasbeens and bums who played fundamentally poor baseball the last few years. I literally can't remember enjoying the Sox less than what I have during the past couple of years. Exception was the first month or so of last year. They were awful to watch....and nothing to really look forward to in terms of long-term progress / hope.

QUOTE (Soxnfins @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:31 PM) If Turner signs elsewhere, could the Dodgers get desperate and give us one of Bellinger/Joc/Lux? Always been a fan of Alex, he played hs ball at my brother's high school and is from my hometown of Kenosha. Absolutely not.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:30 PM) You realize that his pick will be after the 2nd round right? Yes...which means I don't just trade Frazier for bodies..I need actual players. I also view it that Frazier has potential bounce back upside and we could always move him closer to the deadline. That said, I feel RH has some urgency to fast track all of this, so we are probably going to see more guys moved sooner vs. later.

Q is the only other player I can realistically see moving at these meetings. Market hasn't moved enough on closers (Chapman / Jensen still available) or 3B (Turner) for me to see the Sox having enough leverage / other teams to have the urgency to maximize our value (yet). Will be interesting to see what happens with Q.

I would think if we moved Frazier, we'd be talking about Walker or an Austin Barnes....something along those lines. That said, I see very few scenarios where Frazier is moved now. Dodgers are probably the primary landing spot and they won't move on Frazier until Turner's market has settled (nor do I see the other teams looking at Turner moving to Frazier until he moves). Lack of FA market should help us a lot with Frazier. Despite a down year (outside of HR's), I think the weak free agent class will artificially inflate back up his value to where we should get a piece or two that could help us longer term (where as Frazier doesn't help longer term). That said, we need to get enough back that outvalues the pick we'd presumably get with him.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:21 PM) Nats fan: To me, the big thing about this is we got three guys who could be high upside. Yes, bust risk exists, but getting three high caliber players is fantastic. I like this haul as much, if not more, then the Red Sox haul and the combo makes me feel better then Sale in isolation. Still, a lot of work to go and obviously a lot of risk in what the club is doing (but hey...not like we are defending divisional champs or anything, haha). Very nice to see us, seemingly, take a very distinct and clear direction. I'm curious to see what else happens...Q obviously is most intriguing.

QUOTE (Tony @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:14 PM) Yes sir. This is only the start. Long overdue. Obviously acquiring talent is key...now we need to develop that, plus existing talent that was already in the system (and then add more via drafts, etc.).

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:14 PM) Frazier and Cabrera absolutely must be moved. The others we can be a little more hesitant on if we want. I agree...I think Frazier, Melky, and Q all get moved now. I don't know that we get enough to move Abreu (and he has a nice vet presence that he brings to the clubhouse)....Robertson I have no problem holding onto for a bit. I'd be more aggressive dangling Nate. Now the question is what FA flyers do we try to make to buy low and hope to sell at the deadline.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:12 PM) Robertson, Jones, and Frazier can bring something back too. Not anything top 50, but something. Jones has pretty significant value (depending on how teams view his injury history).

QUOTE (South Sider @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:11 PM) There's still plenty of time and trade chips and drafts to get more hitters. Don't fret yet. Q is going to get moved...I have to think....we also still have to move Abreu, Frazier, Melky and Robertson in the next year (most likely Nate Jones as well). Plenty of options to land more positional talent.

I see us moving Q for positional talent....Bregman clearly comes to mind.

Wow...Hahn is moving fast. Eaton and Sale gone...two people in Laroche gate moved (also two of our three players with most leverage). Would have figured Nats would have been in on Robertson, but this looks like a very nice deal. Figured we'd target more pitching. With Eaton moved, I have to think Q is on the move as well. I would have liked Robles in this deal, but can't take major issue with who we are getting back.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 12:03 PM) Fangio pretty much put the report that he was leaving on blast, said he plans to be back next year and the report wasnt true. I keep hoping that is the case. If he leaves for a head coaching job fine, but anything else and I'd be dissapointed. I also am happy the team is playing hard for Fox and I hope they continue to. Doing worse for a top pick doesn't necessarily solve anything.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 11:50 AM) Okay so Kopech is elite but Robles isn't? Why? Robles tool grades are almost identical to Moncadas with more defense/speed on Robles and less power. I wasn't talking Robles. Robles is far more raw then either Moncada / Kopech, imo. I like Robles though and would want him in any of the afformentioned deals. Personally, I don't see the Nats getting all of these parts and my hunch tells me they'd be a fit for a deal involving Eaton/Robertson, headlined around Gio / Robles / Lopez or two of those players, plus another couple prospects. Robles bust factor, given his youth and where he has played thus far in his career, is a lot higher then the other guys. Not saying Kopech / Moncada don't have rawness to them, but they are a little safer to project (albeit they also have bust risk too).

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 11:47 AM) The thing is we just had this conversation with Sale and he got nowhere near the filling in of talent after the premier guys that we all expected. I'm pretty confident in saying that if we take all of soxtalks mega deals and cut them in half it is way more accurate. Now, you may not take those top 30 players, but I'm not sure you get much more back. Kopech and Moncada is elite though. Plus two fillers. Q/Eaton aren't that much less valuable then Sale (on the trade market, considering surplus, etc).

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 11:44 AM) Yeah, I need 4 guys for both Eaton and Q. The chances that Robles becomes as good as Eaton is now are very low, especially since he's so damn raw. Exactly. Plus, we should be realistic about all three of these guys. The odds that any one player we get back will end up being better then the three individual talents, is pretty unlikely, imo. I don't see Moncada being better then Sale and I doubt we'll get an individual who is better then Q or Eaton have been at their peak. That said, the value in this trades is if we can get back multiple good players, that will provide us with a much better and deeper team and one hopefully able to actually contend (and then of course you hope one of the pieces turns out better then the guy dealt, but probably not realistic). The dollar savings is something I don't even consider as it relates to these three particular players, because they all have such team friendly deals (plus between Sale, Q, and eaton you have 3, 4, and 5 more years of collective service, which to a contender, is a long time). Eaton has the same amount of guaranteed time with the Sox as Rodon.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 11:39 AM) I'm fairly certain Nats may view Giolito and lopez as near interchangeable. I think a fair deal for Eaton is Robles and Lopez. Adding more is unlikely. And two top 30 players for eaton is a GREAT trade. I just don't think two top thirty players is that great of value for a guy who has been one of the best outfielders in baseball and is signed to a cheap contract for five years. Given bust rates of prospects, I don't see it. I think we need top talent + depth and need to get that in our packages for Q and / or Eaton. When it comes to Frazier / Robertson, I hope we get a back end top 100 guy for them plus some low level flyers (or maybe some arms we like that we think we can convert to relievers). Expect a bit more for Frazier then Robertson and think we get more for Robertson at the deadline then today. Nate Jones is interesting, but you wonder how much his injury history downplays the value he would have.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 11:25 AM) I was a little surprised to hear that for most of the baseball industry, package the White Sox received was considered head and shoulders above Giolito/Robles/ Lopez which supposedly was their offer for Sale. Q/Eaton are so much surplus, Turner has to be part of it, or I don't see how it makes sense for the White Sox. I think trading your 2 most valuable assets to the same team probably isn't the best way to maximize value in a return. I agree with everything you said. I think packaging Robertson with a Q or Eaton makes sense (and similarly a Frazier or Melky with one of them), but putting them both in a deal probably doesn't maximize value. Given that we got a really elite guy in Moncada, I'm okay if the next deal is more Top 100 type volume talent coming through (vs. a top 5 prospect). The real question is would the Nats offer that package for Q and if so, would the Sox take it. Giolito has real headwinds, not to the extent of a guy like Fulmer, but he didn't exactly flash in his cup of coffee (he wasn't as bad as Fulmer, who showed just such poor "stuff"). When it comes to Fulmer, we have to hope the guy we see this spring, has some juice back in his stuff, cause he looked like a guy who either was impacted by an ailment (or maybe mechanics or other changes that threw off his rhythm) or a guy who was just overly fatigued. I saw none of the stuff you'd like to see of a guy who was picked as high as he was.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 11:17 AM) If they didn't have the prospects for Sale/Cutch, I don't see how they have the prospects for this. Q is probably worth a little less than Sale, but Eaton should be valued a bit higher than Cutch. Maybe this is Rizzo try to waste RH/KW's time after they used him to perfection yesterday. I think they have the prospects, we just liked the package for Sale more then the package they offered. In Cutch's case, I think it is more that the two teams can't agree on what the right price is, not that the nats don't have the talent to get it done. They most definitely have the horses to do it, will they want to pay the price, that is another question.

This type of package would have to include Turner. Nats most certainly have the prospects to pull it off.