Chisoxfn

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 4, 2015 -> 11:21 AM) Exactly. Do you remember the hard sell Hahn gave on Brad Penny last offseason? Ha. I was just responding to DA about how Brad Penny was supposedly competing for the rotation last spring as well. In Penny case their is no upside, but their is zero chance this team has currently earmarked Turner for a rotation spot. That said, they view him as depth and sure, he could show he's healthy and has all of the stuff that once made him a top prospect / effective big leaguer (and he's still very young) but I think it is more likely we see him in the pen. That said, if his stuff is back, I'd have different opinions and I'm not clear as to how much injuries truly impacted him the past two years.

People people...calm down here. And I fully support a seperate walking dead thread if people want one as well. That is fine with me. Certain shows just generate tons of random discussion.

Looks like an interesting season, but I'm still extremely confused as to the set-up. Seems like extremely unfair with all the mismatches of sexes, etc. They clearly have to have some twists to help normalize things.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 4, 2015 -> 06:42 AM) I appreciate you making the effort and I'll also point out that I make an effort to get used to new stats. I don't say negative things too much any more about sabermetric offensive stats but the defensive ones are still a bit much to handle. I think pitchframing is cited way too often and people do trust the new data and guys like you who spout it for fear of falling behind the times or appearing stupid (ones who trust it without hesitation ,not you) Now too many people think Flowers was good defensively which is absurd because he might (and I say might with great hesitation) get some strikes called that aren't strikes . The data may say its 169 or 38 or somewhere in between but as you acknowledge just because the data has assigned it to the catcher doesn't mean its the catcher who caused the difference As for my issues . I've seen the Gameday app online many times And pitch f/x does follow the flight of the ball unless the graphics used on Gameday are for show.I know it also shows its ultimate destination. Even if the final location of the pitch is basically unimpeachable my issue stills lies with how its determined to be a ball or strike. In order to get a true view of the strike zone one first must see the stance of the hitter . Then to be truly accurate you need a directly overhead view of the plate This will determine if any part of the ball went over the plate. . Then you need a side view . After its determined that the pitch was over the plate , next you see if it was in the batters strike zone . While it was crossing the plate was it between his lower knees and whatever the upper part of the zone is now (varies from ump to ump). If pitch f/x uses all that then I apologize for wasting your time but I'm pretty sure it doesn't. So if I have it right it still takes a person prone to his own biases and judgments about the strike zone to call a ball or strike from what he sees as location from pitch f/x. I do accept that how the catcher catches the ball affects how the ump sees it but also how he sets up and catches the ball as close as possible to where he set up. The example you cited about dropping a pitch right down the middle and it being called a ball , frankly I don't see a lot. What I do see a lot more often is when a catcher sets up outside and the pitch goes inside and the catcher has to move a lot to catch the pitch, that pitch is called a ball when it appears to be a strike much more often. That means the ump is giving the catcher and the pitcher some credit for doing what they tried to do which in my eyes means the pitcher has to be accurate as to where the catcher sets up. I give the catcher almost no credit for crouching still and presenting a target and catching the pitch as quietly as possible ( meaning glove doesn't move very much after he catches the pitch). In other words, an umpire is more consistent and accurate when the pitcher displays those same qualities. Good discussing it with you though. I just don't think even if you do trust it ( which I don't) the significance of how important it is is pretty low. I mean if Flowers was 2nd in HR's or RBI's or in batting average or walks or OBP or slugging or OPS ,OPS+ or wRC it's highly doubtful he would be non tendered. There's a few guys out there whose defensive skills make the a much more valuable guy and Tyler Flowers isn't one of those guys by a longshot and that's the truer crux of the matter. Shy / Cali...just wanted to point out that you two have some awesome discussion going on and the way you all are handling the back and forth is also awesome!

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 4, 2015 -> 08:30 AM) Derrick Rose sucks now. The Bulls aren't winning a title. They'll never do this but they should take a step back this year. Gasol has stated that he is opting out after the the season (as he should). In my opinion, the Bulls should deal him. They should trade Noah as well. I know that leaves them pretty thin but it doesn't really matter and I'd rather obtain assets now than get nothing in the offseason. This would be the best course of action for now and the future of the franchise which is why they'll never ever do it. When did Gasol say this? Last I heard he said he hasn't even though about his contract and he doesn't intend to think about it until the offseason. That was per KC Johnson like a day ago.

Look forward to catching up on it today.

QUOTE (LDF @ Dec 3, 2015 -> 03:01 PM) i believe this was mention on a shopping list of some kind for the sox to do or need to address. i like the idea of a closer / rp .... esp with my fiasco this morning on Holland. well in the FA market i have been reading about closer - Steve Cishek. if the cost isn't too much, why not, he is right handed and has had success as a closer... ok last yr was a bad yr... but still. Why do the White Sox need to spend money on a closer?

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Dec 3, 2015 -> 01:49 PM) Honestly, closing the diamond club forum is a detriment to reading the site. Especially since you refuse catch-alls. I want to come in here and see what's going on with the White Sox. I don't want to come in here and have to sift through tons of posts about the Red Sox signing so and so and someone else is rumored to be in trade talks with another team not involving us or what will almost assuredly be way too many posts on what the Cubs are doing. This is a White Sox board. White Sox talk should be separate from the rest and not cluttered with everything else. Sonix, I appreciate the feedback. The struggle I have with the diamond club and PHT is that the off-season in baseball is not a vacuum, so many things that happen outside of the White Sox impact the White Sox or vice versa. Makes it extremely difficult when you have multiple topics in multiple areas (in addition to confusing). When a team makes a signing, it might not even be a guy the Sox are interested in, rather a position they are interesting and thus the impact of that move shrinks the market for the guy the Sox are looking at (having its own repercussions) or could fill a void of a potential trade partner. Look at David Price...at one point their were, I think 4 separate David Price threads. With discussion from impacts to the Red Sox to impacts to the White Sox (what does it mean for Sale / Q's market to how much would Sale get on the open market). Again, Sox were never interested in Price but the conversation that spurred from the discussion was very much White Sox related (and to be frank whenever a really impactful player signs, the signing impacts anyone in the free agent space, imo, as it gives further clarity towards the overall market). That said, I am openly considering a catch-all related to confirmed, non White Sox signings (which have limited to any impact on the Sox) that could be pinned. It would have to be tightly moderated, but it is something I am considering as a happy medium. Would be curious to hear other people's feedback regarding the above. And as I've also said, this is an experiment in and of itself. And again, appreciate the feedback.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 3, 2015 -> 01:33 PM) It just depresses the hell out of me when he goes 1 on 3 on a fast break knowing he's going to get his s*** blocked (which he does, everytime), knowing that my favorite with rose was whizzing through 3 defenseman making an impossible layup. I held out hope for a long time but he is one of the worst pgs in the league. I also still give thibs benefit of doubt: it's possible he ran a very rigid play-based offense because he saw how rarely his team would move. Now Hoiberg is forced to. A year ago, he wouldn't even go in on that break...the point is, progress. This is a long road and a long season. I also view things from the perspective (and this is also a knock) but when Rose has played better competition, he largely (including last year) has played pretty good. It tells me it is still their. It also shows why I am so frustrated with the guy cause I think a lot of this is mental / loss of killer instinct due to what happened to him.

To put things in perspective, he's played 14 regular season games and 1 preseason game. Normally you have 8 preseason games. It is a new system and he has had eye issues, etc. Is it really a surprise that he wouldn't be shooting lights out? His defense has taken a huge step up recently (to the point that I'd say he's been playing above average D) and his passing has been more favorable. Now all that said, I also realize he has consistently had an issue staying on the court so it is a fair criticism, but I still find it extremely unlikely that he will finish the year shooting this poorly and would expect we'll see a much better player as we progress into January and beyond. In fact, I think this season Rose is going to get to the point that he can better trust his body (*knock on wood*) and he can go back to just playing basketball. But I'm an optimist. Either way we have the 5th best record in the NBA and are 3-2 against the teams ahead of us (Wins over Indiana, San Antonio, and Cleveland).

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 3, 2015 -> 01:24 PM) He is pretty scary. What I don't understand is he said he was going to stop shooting until he supposedly could see. He's still chucking them up there. Right now...whenever I see Rose aggressive, I'm happy. It puts more pressure on the D and he can't possibly keep being this bad from the shooting end. He just can't. In fact, he needs to be even more aggressive. Just no threes...please god no threes until he can see (even then, maybe still no threes). He also needs to get past his mental block around the hoop. He looks way too concerned about contact and it is causing him to be a much poorer finisher then his career norms.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Dec 3, 2015 -> 12:28 PM) I think it is because they are winning the same way in the regular season that they have in the past and that the offense isn't looking better (in fact it is worse than at any point under Thibs). On the flipside, you have a new system being implemented so you have some cause or reason that the offense might get better. I'd be more concerned if our offense was playing great and our defense stunk, to be honest (and we had the same record that we do). Also, while Rose has shot just brutally (especially after coming back from his injury), the aggression was largely their yesterday and he was a big reason Pau had that monster game (clearly Pau gets the credit for hitting the shots but Rose and Pau have a good thing going right now). In fact, Rose is looking much better as a distributor and every game I see him playing more consistently with pace (which I presume is based upon him getting more comfort in himself as well as just building up his in-game stamina from missing the preseason). Of course I'm the same guy who has said that Kobe is going to go on a run at some point this year as well (and he had a nasty game last night). Kobe is dealing with a lot of the things Rose has had to deal with the past few years (in terms of having such a long way away from the game). Kobe is obviously much older and has a much more intense work ethic at this point, but still. Bottom line, when we get into January, then I'll start making some determinations but I still think a lot of things are premature. Plus, when we've played the better teams in the league, we have shown we can play with anyone. Unlike past Bulls teams, I actually think this team is going to get better as we head into the playoffs vs. the alternative.

I think the Sox and Zobrist make zero sense. If we are going to try and contend, I hope it is because we are aggressive and adding players who can not only help us next year but 2-3 years down the road as well. Signing Zobrist to this type of deal just puts us in a worse position when the probability to be competitive is higher and thus I'm not interested. He's a good fit for some teams but he isn't a good fit for us.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 3, 2015 -> 10:05 AM) I'm sorry for offending you. I apologize. On a sidnote...no need to apologize. I am not offended and encourage any and all feedback when it comes to how this site is ran. I may or may not always agree with the feedback but the history of this site and how it has been ran has always been to make it as good of a place for all the members to discuss White Sox baseball and when people have feedback / ways to make it better, I'm always open to the idea (might not always agree but always open to hearing and never take offense).

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 3, 2015 -> 10:02 AM) Thats why i said what I said. I dont think Lee and Miller will be the only TEs on the roster of course, but I dont think they will draft one nor sign a name. I think they will take a flyer on a guy and roll with it. I think they either sign one in FA or give Marty an extension. Part of that probably depends on how Marty responds to this.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Dec 2, 2015 -> 11:50 PM) I think it was a mistake. It will surely go bad by year 3. I'd never sign a pitcher over 27 to a deal more than 4 years. The Greinke deal will be even worse, but LA radio for the most part is like "We have to sign the guy. We can't let the Giants get him." I think it's the exact opposite. Every big deal the Giants give a pitcher turns to s***. A lot of people said that about the deal the Dodgers gave Greinke last time and he outperformed that massive deal, imo. Odds are more against him doing it again, given his age, but he's an elite pitcher. Personally, I take him over Lee (especially since you might be able to get him for less years). Greinke is the type of pitcher that I think holds up better as he ages than a guy like Price. I might be wrong though and unless I was a franchise with very deep pockets (i.e., LA / Boston / NY), I wouldn't even entertain any of these type of pitchers ever on the FA market. Downside is too crippling to a franchise.

I must say, I've always liked Span and feel we've lacked the type of player Span personifies. That said, he's got serious hip issues and I'd be concerned going long-term on him. However, if you could get him on a shorter-term deal, I'd be intrigued.

On the flipside, I've pinned a few threads which is more than I usually allow for.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Dec 3, 2015 -> 09:37 AM) I'm fully aware that no one mentioned is as good as Marty. Like I said, I'd hate to see him go, but the conversation is about him being let go ala Marshall. I also like Jake Butt....Does he make it to the middle of the 2nd? Bears have bigger fish to fry than drafting a TE in the 2nd round.

Are they saying Booo or BUUUURRNS? As far as I'm concerned, the mods are saying BUUUURNS

I am intrigued here.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 3, 2015 -> 09:44 AM) It wasn't really a catch all. We were developing plans on what we thought best fit the Sox and had discussions over that. And when a bunch of actual news got posted and discussion was all jumbled with a ton of different topics, it became a catch-all and was closed. I realize their is a vocal minority who likes the catch-all, but historically I have received far more outpouring against the catch-all than for the catch-all. And I've also indicated my own personal hatred of them. Plus, I am adamant that it is best for the health of the site.

Glad Turner is back. I like our history of fixing talented pitchers and Turner has some talent / potential.

Closing this thread, since Navarro was signed (see separate thread).

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 3, 2015 -> 09:37 AM) Can you please open up the offseason plan thread again while you're at it? No I will not. Catch all's are not tolerated on this site. They are a detriment to healthy discussion and make it more difficult for people to read the site.