Butter Parque

QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Sep 17, 2010 -> 05:22 AM) Bulls***. They take cheap shots, throw at batters intentionally, beat s***ty teams on luck and then lose in the first round in the playoffs. If you want to admire a team like that and congratulate them that's fine --but why don't you do it on a Twins board? The twins play hard every night. We don't. The Twins never concede an inning during the season. We concede many. The Twins play the game hard all the time and do anything in their power to win (whether you believe it's cheap or not). If AJ didn;t like what Delmon Young did he should have punched in the face right then and there. They make their own luck by never giving anything away. They never believe that they are out of a game, and in return, their fans get to appreciate baseball after 162 games are played. Unfortunately we rarely do.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 17, 2010 -> 03:55 AM) I agree, it's pathetic that Ozzie never retaliated against Delmon Young. And as for the Twins and their bs brand of baseball? The quality of their hitters is so much better than ours, it's not even close. I didn't see that many dinky hits by them this season (that would be KC and M. Aviles). The way they approach the game starts right from the time they are drafted, onto the instructional leagues, all the way up to the majors. It's simple, from the time they get these players, it's defense first, going to opposite field and learning how to take walks. Their pitchers pound the strike zone, no matter what. They don;t have to have great stuff, but they can paint the corners with ease. And they always believe they can win Congrats to a model organization

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 17, 2010 -> 03:47 AM) We won't be saying that in 3 years about KC. Yeah, they at lest put runs on the board.

QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Sep 17, 2010 -> 01:22 AM) Except Beane really hasn't developed anyone, position player as least (their pitching looks pretty good, albeit a bit overstated with that pitchers park). I think they have about 76 outfielders on their 25 man roster who are all bad. Plus, the A's had a lot of money top spend last offseason and failed hard. Also, to say KW has been a disaster since 2005 fails so, so much. 2006- 90 wins with a pitching staff that pitched an extra month the year before. 2007- ok disaster 2008- division title 2009- contended for most of the year, wouldn't call it a failure 2010- could win 90 games again ...speaking of borderline lunacy I only see one playoff season in there. Perhaps I am a lunatic for wanting to get to to the postseason. Too many people here settle for mediocrity. This whole, "at least we're not the Royals" sentiment is depressing.

Every year they have an opportunity to win a championship, we don't. Their odds are greater than ours right now.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 17, 2010 -> 12:45 AM) Seriously. 2007 was worse than this? We're already not a contender in 2011? Give me a reason to be optimistic

The Carlos Gonzalez deal looked like a bad one from day one if you kid ever seen the kid play, but Beane is good in that he produces a talent well, based around pitching that can give him flexibility. Now give him a $100 million dollar payroll and I think he would do wonders. As far as making the playoffs every year compared to one world series title: The championship is great and will always be great but if we made the playoffs 8 out of every 10 years, our odds wold be greater of getting hot in the playoffs and winning a championship. As much as I love the title, I want to still be interested in baseball in September and October. That's what I want more than anything from the guy who is GM. That's what Terry Ryan and Billy Smith have built. I'd also like a team to have a fresh start against Minnesota. Next year, those demons will still be in our head's, why would I have confidence that's we'd all of a sudden overcome them. I'd like to have pitchers who aren't scared of Minnesota and hitters that don;t grip the bat too tight when runners are on base.

2 playoff appearances in 10 years isn't good enough. A team that is skull-f****d year in and year out by it's division rival is not good enough

QUOTE (Knackattack @ Sep 17, 2010 -> 12:16 AM) Daniel Hudson was in the original package. Do some research, bro? Also, you guys are ridiculous. Without Kenny, we'd be sitting here lamenting every day Brandon McCarthy sat on the disabled list while John Danks tore up Texas, we'd just start getting hyped about Gio Gonzalez maybe being good instead of having a cheap, consistent starter in Gavin Floyd. How was he supposed to know that Peavy would get injured? And its not like we don't have the guy for more seasons where he is an Ace caliber pitcher. Without Kenny, we don't have a championship in 2005, something that I cherish immensely as a young fan and hope to see more of, something Kenny Williams is always out to do. I want a GM who wants to win, not a Billy Beane type who sells off his team and hopes the prospects will come through, only to sell them off again when he wins. KW made some mistakes, but who doesn't? We could have Pat Burrel or Torri Hunter eating payroll, but instead, we have Alex Rios, for free. We could have Uribe still sitting at SS, but instead, we have Alexei Ramirez, the best defensive SS in the AL this year there. We could be waiting for Joe Crede to get healthy, but we have Dayan Viciedo getting ready to take over and Brent Morel looking solid as well. Us losing this season isn't Kenny's fault. Kenny didn't start Mark F*cking Kotsay at DH. Kenny didn't say no to Thome. Kenny didn't run Randy Williams out there every chance he got. Kenny didn't stick Bobby Jenks in every save only to have fail over and over. I don't even know where to begin. Basically what you are saying is that if we didn't have KW, we'd have no one at all. We would just keep the same roster for the next ten years? That's ridiculous. How do you know someone couldn't do better over the last few years. How do you know we wouldn't have a better farm system or have acquired different, good players. Randy Williams is completely on KW. He put him on the team because he didn't give Ozzie any other options. You can't use Thornton 100 times a season. You need a second lefty, that's why Williams pitched, not because Ozzie thought he was Koufax. Billy Beane does want to win, he has bad ownership and no attendance. If Bill Beane had Reinsdorf as an owner with a bigger payroll, we would be a perennial threat for a pennant more often than not. Beane constantly develops and trades for good young players. He doesn't have the money at his disposal to make a splash or even re-sign his own. I love Kenny for what he did in leading up to 2005, but since then, things have been a disaster. P.S. describing Floyd as consistent is borderline lunacy

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Sep 16, 2010 -> 11:46 PM) Well, Peavy getting hurt hurt his chances of helping the team. Unfortunately he was hitting his stride when he went down. I view the Jackson deal as a piece for 2011, although I still don't like the money aspect. And the Manny move was a flop. I know what he was trying to do, and we were only 4 games out at that time. But, hindslight being what it is, Viciedo would have been a better option for a month. How are we a contender to Minnesota in 2011. At least they are getting back Morneau, what the hell do we have?

He sure sounded defeated in that article. For a guy that doesn't give up, It seems like he put a lot of eggs into this seasons basket and saw the worst case scenario come true. We didn't sell off at the deadline, added a player, gave up a prospect and still didn;t make the playoffs. To me, this season has been more disappointing than 2007. At least then, Floyd had a few good starts at the end of the season and you figured Danks would get better and Buehrle was really good. We have nothing to make anyone feel real good about next year. Thornton will be a year older. Jenks will mercifully be gone. Who knows with Putz. Who knows with Sale. Buehrle doesn't seem like an ace anymore. The more you see Gavin, the less you think he's gonna be a consistent winner for us. Danksy was very shaky in the second half. Who knows about Freddy, don't really want him back. Who knows with Konerko. It sucks that we're stuck with Pierre. I like him a lot, I just wish things were more flexible there. Do you really know what you getting out of Beckham next year? Hopefully they can move Quentin. At least we have Rios, Viciedo and The Serg. God This Sucks, What did you do to us KW!

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 16, 2010 -> 08:11 PM) Your conclusion that more giving up outs hasn't really hurt doesn't follow from the data one bit. If hypothetically we had a significantly better overall team this year than last, but we lost 2-3 games because of foolishly bad baserunning mistakes and giving up too many outs, the team's record could easily still improve. Furthermore...you quoted Thome and Dye's raw power and RBI numbers...while ignoring things like how much JD struggled in the 2nd half of last year...and the fact that some of that production was replaced by bringing in Andruw Jones and a better season from Alex Rios. When we lost last year, people said we needed to stop being a plodding base to base team. Now that we have more speed and less power, people want to go back to the old style. Perhaps we should strike a a balance between the two. There is a solution to this whole getting run out of innings dilemma. Perhaps we should teach guys like Alexei and Beckham to learn how to steal bases and read pitchers. With all of Alexei's speed, he rarely gets good jumps, the same goes for Beckham. When your team is built the way it is built (in the case, less power, more speed) keeping your runners at a stand still would be a disaster. They have to be in motion to be effective. Is it reckless? of course, but that's how it is with the team we have. You steal a bunch and your thrown out a bunch. It's quite similar to waiting for home runs. Sometimes it works out great, other times you ground into killer double plays.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Sep 16, 2010 -> 07:56 AM) Ozzie was rid of Teahen soon enouugh. Peavy was not injury riddled before he came here. He's had two freak injuries. Also, the Clayton Richard overvaluing needs to stop. He was a 5th starter at best here. Quentin's blame is solely on him. Ozzie had two other closers in the pen available. Not Ozzie's fault for Williams. Scott Linebrink has not lost the Sox an unworldly amount of games this year. He's been fine, just massively overpaid. Ozzie didn't do Gordon any favors by having him bunt into outs to start the year, but thats on Gordon. Ozzie is responsible 99% for the rotating DH bulls***. Thome had low averages but an OBP of .362 and .372 in those years. I'd be fine with both of them back next year, but I prefer Kenny all the way to Ozzie and that's because Ozzie is the one who insisted on playing NL style slappy run baseball and run into out after out after out after out. This is Peavy's third straight season spending significant time on the DL. So, by your logic, then every player who has a bad year is to blame instead of his bosses who keep him here for it. I guess Mark Kotsay only has himself to blame for our second place finish. Gordon bunting was his best option early on,at least he could hope for a throwing error. I think I saw how Putz did in the closer's role when called upon against Detroit. I didn't say Linebrink cost us a lot of games, but in July, if Ozzie would have brought Linebrink into a 1 run lead, your would have been calling for his head. Thome had pretty high OBP's for us in his last two seasons, but I didn't notice him making much of a difference game in and game out. Thome has the same amount of home runs in a hundred less AB's this season. Do you really think he would have looked reborn with us? Fat Chance. He also has one more double than last season already and 36 less strikeouts. In the same way that Lew Ford, Danny Valencia, Jason Tyner and Doug Mientkiewicz probably wouldn't hit the same way for other teams as they do with Minnesota, the same can be said about Thome. I truly believe Thome would have had a similar season for us this year, that he had last year, and while that may still be much better than Kotsay, that also doesn't make him a difference maker.

Carlos Quentin and Andruw Jones are hitting .236 and .228 respectively. They are a threat to do little.

I think definitely Ozzie has given away outs this season. But just imagine how bad this offense would have been if he wasn't constantly putting runners in motion. This lineup has more speed than power. But what it really lacks is ability.

So basically everyone here is saying that Ozzie is the reason Mark Teahen is the world's dullest player and should never be a starter for a contending team. It's Ozzie's fault that Kenny traded a good young pitcher who had some success here for an injury-riddled, expensive pitcher who was below average and then surprisingly suffered another serious injury. It's Ozzie's fault that Carlos Quentin's 2008 season was a mere abberation. It's Ozzie's fault that Bobby Jenks is a fat piece of s*** and wasn't available when we needed him the most. It's Ozzie's fault that he had a AAA 2nd lefty out of the bullpen who he couldn't use unless he was up or below 6 runs, thus forcing him to drastically overuse Thornton early in the season. It's Ozzie's fault that Scott Linebrink is a waste of flesh who pitches like Randy Williams, except makes closers money/ It's Ozzie's fault that his supposed best player (Beckham) was a mental midget for the first 3 months. Ozzie is far from the best manager in the world, but anyone who thinks this season is his fault is out of their mind. People forget Jim Thome hit .245 and .249 for us his last 2 years. Don't people remember him striking out in huge situations on most occasions at the tail end of his stay here. The guy was great for awhile but he was taking up space at the end. Kenny was a fool to listen to Ozzie about Kotsay, Ozzie isn't a personnel director. Kenny is his boss, he should have known better.

QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Aug 3, 2010 -> 08:05 PM) Lili getting in on the action I don't think Alexei has any chance to win this year. I say the award goes to Andrus. He doesn't deserve it but he also didn't deserve to finish 2nd in ROY or make the all-star team either.

If your going to have to give up Hudson and Viciedo as a starting point in this deal and it seems unlikely that they would sign him to a long term contract, I don't see us getting full value for a guy who will DH for 2 months and then play 1B for 1 more year before leaving.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 6, 2010 -> 05:24 AM) Teahen's bat isn't my concern, his glove is. I'd be willing to try him at 2nd, but I don't want to see him at 3rd. I thought his glove was really starting to come around before he got hurt. I loved the trade when it happened, mostly for his glove, I still think Teahen is going to be a good player for us before all is said and done, and for anyone thinking that Omar is going to be the answer for the rest of the season, your out of your mind.

Does anybody have an information on the kid Jerry Puentes playing in the Dominican Summer League? I believe he's a 17 year old middle infielder, but does anybody have any information on his signing bonus and what not?

i hope thornton isn't a one year wonder

i'm sure boone logan would have gotten out Hafner

He got claimed on waivers, so there ends that prospect's journey in White Sox Country.

It would have to be the James Baldwin trade.

I'd use Sisco, it would be him or Boone Logan and we all know how that would turn out.