Soxbadger

Really strange last 2 posts. The only reason people ever post on a message board is because something interests them. I just found it interesting how many people were seemingly fine with Flynn being anointed the starter. I would have thought it was much closer to 50/50, but who knows.

Probably not, I didnt even bring it up, I just responded to another poster.

Sanchez was drafted 5th overall. Flynn was drafted 7th round. Its not comparable if you are talking about a player who NFL scouts originally considered good. Im pretty done with this argument, I really dont care about the Seahawks and we arent talking about a guy who was a first round pick. Its a 7th round pick, who has played 3 games in the NFL. If that is enough experience for you to say he should be the starter no questions asked, great. If its not enough, great. Either way its an opinion and there is no right or wrong.

Right. For the first time Seattle is seeing how Flynn is playing and they are giving Wilson a chance. What does that say? Cassel wasnt given the job at NE, he earned. He beat out the other players and was the last player kept on the team. Im not dismissing anything. Im saying that Flynn still is unproven and should have to actually win the starting job. The numbers were merely to show how little he actually played, nothing more, nothing less.

Im wasting time at work. I tend to care about a topic until I dont. Thats pretty much my posting MO.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 01:28 PM) It also proves that College experience means jack s*** when evaluating NFL players Oh come on now, Cassel didnt play because he was behind Leinart. If he had college experience Cassel would have been drafted higher than the 7th round. So it actually proves that college experience does mean something as Im pretty sure every draft evaluation down graded him for not having experience.

Yeah I obviously dont have a rivals subscription to an Indiana forum. And I dont know why? That is what most of the Wisconsin people are asking, because Wisconsin never offered Fischer a scholarship, so they are theorizing that this is Fischer trying to determine if Wisconsin has interest in him. It really is odd because if Wisconsin wanted him, you would think they would have offered him and worked the fact that his HS coach has a son going to Wisconsin as a walk-on and his AAU team is the "Wisconsin Swing" which has Koenig also a Wisconsin recruit.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 01:05 PM) No, McDaniels was Cassels OC in New England. Haley never was with NE. In fact, Cassel going to KC is part of the reason the Bears ended up with Cutler. McDaniels wanted Cassell badly, and tried to move Cutler so he could get Cassel. Cassel signed in KC and Cutler blew up in McDaniels face and he wanted out. It was Scott Pioli, I knew that someone from NE had gone to KC and sold them on Cassel. Also, Cassel started all of 2008, so 16 games in the NFL trumps anything done in college. If Flynn started all last season, this wouldnt even be a discussion.

QUOTE (He_Gawn @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 12:54 PM) Of course he denies it, his son plays for UW and is a UW fan. There's quotes directly from Luke an his father indicating the exact opposite. Can you link the quotes? I have no idea what the truth is, so it would be nice to see what you are referring to.

Since I dont really care this is my final post on the subject. There are a million things that go into rating a QB. You cant compare the career path of Cam Newton to Matt Flynn because Flynn was not a #1 draft pick, he was a 7th round pick. The reason why is because Matt Flynn wasnt that impressive in college. So now we are 7 years later and the guy has only played 3 games and it seems like people just want to hand him the job, I think that is folly. When you mention Hasselbeck or Cassel, I think it also should be mentioned that Holmgrem had coached Hasselbeck so he knew him, and I believe Haley had been on the team with Cassel. To the best of my knowledge no one on the Seattle staff was with Flynn, so they dont really have that insight into him. Bottom line, the only point I have been trying to make is that I dont think Flynn has done enough to be given a starting job. I think he needs to earn it, and part of that is giving the competition a chance to prove themselves. As I said before, Wilson could be terrible on Friday and its an easy call. But if Wilson does excellent and Flynn is bad, why wouldnt you give Wilson a shot?

I read both 19.5mil and 26mil, so Im not sure which is right. I went with the higher one haha. (edit) Nm the 26mil is the highest possible, 19.5mil would be if he is a back up. Thats not terribly excessive for a back up.

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 12:27 PM) Haha, okay, so junior college is somehow a valid sample size for the NFL now. Can you even name where he went without looking? There are dozens upon dozens of other JuCo players that never even make an impact at the college level. Are we going to start looking at who started how many games at high school next? Well the argument I made was about how many games they started in college or above before being given a starting job at the NFL level. JUCO is college, just like EIU counts for Tony Romo. /shrugs I counted Delhomme's games as well.

QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 12:23 PM) 3 years 19.5 million for a starting QB really isn't that expensive. While I'm sure the Seahawks wished they could have acquired a sure thing at QB with years of NFL starting experience that showed they would be great, those players aren't that easy to come by. But Flynn's 3 games for GB weren't meaningless, and he kicked ass. It doesn't mean he will be a guaranteed probowler, but it is a lot more info to go off of than projecting college play to the NFL. Russel Wilson might end up being really good, but even if he is, they'll just have a really cheap starting QB and a fairly expensive backup (similar to the titans). As far as planning, I think signing Flynn and hoping for the best with Wilson is better than just drafting wilson and hoping for the best. But oh what a great irony it would be if wilson kicked ass for a few games as a backup and rode his way to Starting QB territory. Right because Flynn was brought in to compete for the starting job against Tavaris Jackson. It just turns out he actually is competing against Wilson. He didnt kick ass in all 3 games, he played bad in 1 of them. You really are missing the point. Im just saying that the Seahawks should give them both a chance to win the job. For all I know Wilson will suck on Friday and Flynn easily gets the job. They signed Flynn before the draft so the whole Wilson thing was far in the future. They had no way of knowing how the draft would go.

QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 12:16 PM) I couldnt believe I was able to read this far into this discussion before someone brought up Cassel. Hes basically the perfect person to compare the situation to. I mentioned Cassel yesterday and blanked on him today. Like I said there are exceptions. QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 12:23 PM) You guys are missing an even more obvious one: Cam Newton. ONE year of starting at Auburn and he's the #1 pick and an imediate starter. OMG, he can't play! Cam Newton started for a junior college, thats why he played more than 1 year. http://www.njcaa.org/colleges_college_play...easonselect=459 So that is 2 years of starting.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 12:15 PM) My argument right now is that Seattle did enough due diligence to hand him starter money, and he should start. You are acting as if they DIDNT look at any other piece of info available and just handed him the contract. They obviously felt he was capable, Russell Wilson or not. Thats not what I am saying at all. Flynn is an unknown quantity. Wilson is an unknown quantity. In my opinion you give them both a chance in preseason and see what happens. It has nothing to do with Flynn before Wilson came into camp. If Wilson wasnt playing well, there would be no controversy. The controversy started because Wilson has been playing well and they want to see if its because hes playing against back ups, or if he can do well against starters.

QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 11:41 AM) There's no reason to use these college stats as opposed to actual NFL game film which they could evaluate him on. NFL teams have scouts for these very situations. Right, Im going to give a player 3 years 26mil and I am only going to look at 3 NFL games before doing it. That would be terrible due diligence. If I am a NFL team, I would look at every single piece of game film I could find, including High School or lower if possible. For Matt Flynn that is 16 games, or approximately 48 hours. If you cant put 48 hours into scouting your next NFL QB, you deserve to fail. Its not about college stats, I dont understand why you cant grasp this. Its about how many minutes of actual football Matt Flynn has played and what he has done in games that actually mattered. I mean what is your argument even? My argument is that Matt Flynn has not done enough to be handed a starting QB job and should have to earn it. I guess you are arguing that Matt Flynn should be handed a starting job, based on 3 NFL games? I really just dont know.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 08:45 AM) The catalog is in different parts based on which record company was selling their albums. Plus they have a ton of other royalties off of new stuff like re-releases and things like Love. There are a bunch of different credits on each song. Lennon and McCartney had writing credits, which likely were not included in the sale to Jackson. And I agree that Lennon had different motivations, which is why I think he would have done it for charity, but not for money. If it was for a cause Lennon liked, he would have considered doing a show is my guess.

QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 11:31 AM) You actually can do this. Sure, it makes no sense, but you can do it. Just like you can say that the team who scores first wins. You can do anything, but it doesnt make for good discussion.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 11:24 AM) Matt Cassel. 0 college games started Yeah blanked on him. There are exceptions, but I wouldnt have handed Cassel a starting job. He would have had to earn it. That is really all Im arguing here, that Flynn has done nothing to be given a starting job. Im just not sure how there is evidence otherwise.

QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 11:18 AM) I don't really care, at all, about college. Delhomme was a backup in Nola that showed occasional brilliance. Hasselback was Favre's backup, that Holmgren traded for. Nobody cares about college. BUt there is precedent for handing a former NFL backup a starting job based off limited action. You dont care about college, great. Im not going to bother arguing because you just dont want to talk about actual facts. I understand those guys didnt play much in the NFL, that isnt the point. The point is that there was a lot more in game footage of these guys showing what they could actually do. With Matt Flynn you are limited to 1 season at LSU, where he didnt even play the final game. /shrugs

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 11:18 AM) He's not talking about college. No one cares about college when talking the NFL except for you! He's talking about "in the NFL". Those are clearly all QBs who were NFL backups who went on to start elsewhere. Right, he just wants to pretend that they didnt play 2x as many college games as Flynn. Im saying you cant look at it in a vacuum and pretend that the NCAA games didnt occur. Basically every starting QB I can think of started at least 2 years (in NCAA or NFL) before being given a starting position, can anyone think of a guy who didnt? Even Brady started at Michigan 2 years.

QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 10:57 AM) Eh, Matt Hasselback, Jake Delhomme, we've seen these small sample size QBs get signed to be starters before and it has worked out. Not everyone is Kolb. ? Hasselbeck started 2 seasons at Boston College. (701 attempts) Delhomme started all 4 years at a small Louisiana Lafayette. (1246 attempts) Kevin Kolb started 4 years at Houston. (1565 attempts) Matt Flynn started 1 year at LSU. (437 attempts) I guess people still arent understanding how little Matt Flynn has actually played in his career. Since 2004 Matt Flynn has thrown 569 passes in actual live games. Every name you mentioned, threw far more than that prior to being given a job at the NFL level. Furthermore, Hasselbeck the closest comparison lowest amount of throws in actual games over an 7 year period was: 1051 attempts, which was slightly less than 2x the attempts Flynn has. I really can not think of any QB who has played this little and been given a starting QB job. Flynn is so untested and unproven that he should absolutely have to win the job. I dont see how you can argue that it would be smart for Seattle to just hand Flynn the job when he has thrown less than 600 passes since 2004.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 09:07 AM) I don't wish to sound like an insurance company shill here, despite full disclosure that I presently work for one. Insurance companies do a lot of things I disagree with, a lot of things the ACA actually corrected for the better. But it takes more than insurance companies to mess this up...the doctors/hospitals/drug companies share a majority of the blame, but haven't been touched. Remember, they're the ones that send the arbitrary and exorbitant bills...but nobody seems to care about that. It's all the insurance companies fault. Doctors have a really powerful and tricky lobby. Anyone that goes up against Doctors, see lawyers, gets vilified.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 22, 2012 -> 03:40 AM) You can find examples of this all over. You can't ignore college numbers, but they aren't an indicator of success, no matter the competition nor the system they were in. Who has said otherwise? The point was how FEW games Flynn has played. Im pretty sure every QB you mentioned started at least 2 years in college. There are a million reasons why College States dont necessarily match NFL stats, including but not limited to: different size ball, different rules for coverage, less talented receivers, unbalanced schedules, unbalanced teams. I could go on forever. But its very rare for a starting NFL QB to be handed a job when they havent started 16 games at any level above High School. Even Brady started 25 games. Matt Flynn has started 2 games in the NFL and maybe 15 games in college. That just is a tremendously small sample size. There just is really no reason to hand Flynn the job, which is all I have been arguing. The college stats were just to show how little Flynn actually played.

Why would the Packers get MJD? It would be a completely stupid waste of resources. They dont need a #1 rb, they just need a few solid rbs who are cheap so that they can pay other more important positions.