hammerhead johnson

QUOTE(qwerty @ Jun 5, 2005 -> 06:07 PM) Amare was second, curry could have been possibly been third if he wasn't out for those games. http://www.sportsline.com/nba/dunk-o-meter/yearly Fascinating stuff. I can't believe that Garnett only had 86 dunks on the season. Do you have any idea where I could find these stats for previous years? I did a google search, and I couldn't find anything. However, I found this gem: Facts About Basketball It doesn't get any more comprehensive than that if we're talking about basketball facts.

QUOTE(I-HATE-CREDE @ Jun 5, 2005 -> 05:31 PM) Why was this guy banned? Most likely due to the fact that he's a complete f***ing meathead. And he ain't the only one. :hint hint

QUOTE(Sox rule @ Jun 5, 2005 -> 05:04 PM) DAMN! I WISH PEAVY WOULD BE ABLE TO FACE THE SOX! Banned with the quickness. Admins

QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Jun 5, 2005 -> 06:54 AM) I'm surprised you like Amare. I'm surprised you uttered the name Steve Nash. I CANNOT and WILL NOT say that I believe, without any doubt, that the Warriors make the Conference Finals with Ben Wallace or KG, and I really like those guys. I have no idea how you could be that confident about that statement. Of course I like Amare Stoudemire. Outside of Shaq, KG, and Duncan, who is a more unstoppable paint force in this league? Like I've said before, I want the highest percentage shots possible, and it's very rare when you miss a dunk. Stoudemire led the league in dunks, IIRC. Nash is obviously one hell of a QB in the right place at the right time. Put Marion back at SF, Stoudemire back at PF, and you'll have some consistent defensive play out of those positions. Add a rebounding/shot altering presence to the C slot like Samuel Dalembert after you cut Johnson loose and start Jimmy Jackson from the jump at SG, and you can give the Spurs a much better challenge in 2006. Unless Jackson is just about done, I dunno. He's been in the league for 14 years. You'll also have a damn good 6th man/3 point specialist in Quentin Richardson. The Warriors don't make the Conference Finals for certain with a Wallace or a Garnett in addition to what they had last year minus Baron Davis? I'll buy that, I merely said that they'd be a Conference Finals contender. Point is, those four first tier guys are, minus Garnett, the championship links since Jordan retired. And KG? He'll lead someone to a title within the next four to five years.

QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Jun 5, 2005 -> 07:14 AM) And 'Nique doesn't. I wasn't sure what he meant by "But people will continue to overrate the Dominiques and Drexlers of the world in a championship sense." Glide has a ring. 'Nique doesn't. Drexler played on insanely deep teams. He was an incredible player on the offensive end, a Top 50 player of all time, but remember, the Rockets won it all in 1994...one year before Clyde joined them. He got his ring, that is true. But he's not the guy who leads you to an NBA championship, despite his Top 50 status. That's why I liken him to guys like Wade, Bryant, Pierce, McGrady, etc. That was my point.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jun 4, 2005 -> 08:12 PM) I heard Viz has lost some speed on his pitches, think he was on the juice? Look at Milwaukee's team pitching numbers: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/mil/stat...Pitching&type=0 Then look at what guys have done since they've left Milwaukee (Viz, Kolb). Miller is one crazy motherf***ing pitchers park.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jun 4, 2005 -> 08:07 PM) Well, a lot of people said that relievers are (or were) big steroid users. So, maybe that's it I'll buy that if we're talking about closers beyond the age of 32 (whose skills have deteriorated somewhat, to the point where they need to cheat), but guys in the 26 to 29 age bracket just ain't turning out as they have in the past. So far, through 1/3 of the season, we have Lyon, Turnbow, and Brazoban. Hermanson is 33. Guys are failing to get the job done left and right. Teams like Atlanta and San Francisco are absolutely f***ed this year, as nobody can step up and close out games.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jun 4, 2005 -> 07:50 PM) What I am trying to figure out is WTF is with all these pitchers breaking through? Steroid use actually was that widely used by the rest of the MLB? Harang, Bonderman, Myers, Garland, Capuano, Rogers, Bedard, Chen, Silva, Young, Santos...I never remember this many guys pitching much better than their career numbers this late into the season. It's almost ridiculous. Offenses all around are down, and do to direct cause/effect, pitching staffs are incredibly better. Jose Canseco was right apparently? Tell me about it. When Bedard went on the DL, I added Chris Capuano to my squad. Since then, the guy has been amazing. I didn't know who he was even a month ago. On the other hand, what's going on with relievers this year? I guess that we'll just save that discussion for another thread.

QUOTE(Punch and Judy Garland @ Jun 4, 2005 -> 07:48 PM) Who can't love this Pedro renaissance? It's great I looove Pedro

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Jun 4, 2005 -> 01:41 PM) And apparently you're not alone. From Sam Smith's latest column: Does everyone agree w/ this? I was surprised, but then I don't follow basketball as closely as many people here. Sad to think so many people had Wade going to the Bulls a couple years ago. I try not to read Sam Smith articles, so I'm not sure whether they're talking futures or players you'd take right now, but I'll take any one of these guys first: Tim Duncan Shaquille O'Neal Kevin Garnett Ben Wallace I'm not going to rank them. IMO, Stoudemire would be in the second tier right now with guys like Jermaine O'Neal, Ron Artest, Andrei Kirilenko. Best SGs and SFs to add to a defensive squad: Dwyane Wade, Lebron James, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen Best PGs to add: Steve Nash, Jason Kidd I don't think that teams should build around combo guards and SFs who are lights out on offense, but can not play great defense. Put Wade or Lebron James on Golden State, and then we'll see what's up. I can say without a doubt that if you put any of my four first tier players on Golden State, you'd have a Conference Finals contender. But people will continue to overrate the Dominiques and Drexlers of the world in a championship sense. BTW, basketball fans, stop looking for the next Jordan, it ain't gonna happen. Jordan won Defensive Player Of The Year in 1987, and could have won it a bunch of other times. Nobody could ever begin to match that guy's competitive spirit out of the SG position.

Update Minimum: 55 IP 1. Pedro Martinez 0.71 WHIP 2. Roger Clemens 0.86 WHIP 3. Jake Peavy 0.92 WHIP 4. Brett Myers 0.94 WHIP 5. Johan Santana 0.94 WHIP 6. Roy Halladay 0.97 WHIP 7. Mark Prior 1.03 WHIP 8. Mark Buehrle 1.04 WHIP 9. Erik Bedard 1.04 WHIP 10. Carlos Zambrano 1.05 WHIP 11. Dontrelle Willis 1.06 WHIP 12. Mike Hampton 1.07 WHIP 13. Jon Garland 1.09 WHIP 14. Mike Redman 1.10 WHIP 15. Aaron Harang 1.11 WHIP 16. Roy Oswalt 1.13 WHIP 17. Brad Radke 1.13 WHIP 18. Bartolo Colon 1.13 WHIP 19. Jose Contreras 1.14 WHIP 20. Josh Beckett 1.15 WHIP 20. Kenny Rogers 1.15 WHIP 20. Javier Vazquez 1.15 WHIP Newcomers in the Top 20: Carlos Zambrano, Mike Redman, Aaron Harang, Roy Oswalt, Jose Contreras, Josh Beckett, Kenny Rogers, Javier Vazquez. Randy Johnson fell from #11 overall to #33 overall with the quickness. There are no Yankees on this list right now. The White Sox have three starters in the Top 20...no other team has that many. The Twins, Cubs, Marlins, and Astros have two apiece. I am still dumbfounded by what Brett Myers has done this year.

The Braves need bullpen help in the worst way. Their bullpen hasn't been this bad since the late 80s. Who are the keepers in their current pen? A. Bernero (Closer) D. Kolb C. Reitsma J. Sosa K. Gryboski R. Colón Absolutely atrocious, the Royals might have a better bullpen. They won't make the playoffs unless they acquire a couple of guys. The Twins have amazing bullpen depth with Nathan, Romero, Rincon, Crain, etc. If there is a trade in the works, I doubt that the Braves would be looking at Jacque Jones or any other hitter from the Twins, because offense is not or should not be an issue with Chipper Jones, Andruw Jones, Marcus Giles, Rafael Furcal, Adam Laroche, etc. It's all about the pen.

QUOTE(rafacosta @ Jun 3, 2005 -> 12:05 PM) Wrong time for Yankee$$ to get in a slump...do you know who they will play this weekend? The f*** Twinkies! They always whoop the Twins, it never fails. The Yankees just went through a stretch in May where they won 16 out of 18 games (from May 7 to May 27). Now they've lost 5 in a row, including 3 to the worst team in the majors. The pitching outside of the one Boston game has been fine, but their offense has gone to sleep once again. You know that's not gonna last, what with Rodriguez, Sheffield, Jeter, Matsui, Posada, and the primary comeback player of the year candidate in Tino Martinez. In the end, I hate their enormous payroll too, but I can take a look at the AL and see that they're still the team to beat in the AL playoffs.

George Mikan was the man. RIP, big man.

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 07:40 PM) Hammer, how could I agree with you so much in one thread and start an argument in another? I love you list of top pitchers (my only gripe is Paige not being in the top 10, but he's hard to place since he was in the Negro Leagues), and yes, Walsh definitely merits consideration for top Sox player. And as much as I love Frank, Cobb and Nap are a couple of the best ever. He's good, but he's not THAT good. I'd love to see what Cobb or Shoeless Joe could do nowadays. Paige definitely gets Top 10 consideration. I've seen some lists with him in the Top 5, ahead of guys like Brown, Walsh, Carlton, and even Koufax.

QUOTE(rangercal @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 07:27 PM) Walsh was the best in his era. I just don't think you could compare him to someone like Bob Gibson, or Randy Johnson. That's pretty much on the money. I'll take Gibson or Johnson ahead of Walsh.

QUOTE(rangercal @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 07:25 PM) Obviously no one would have those numbers. I may be going on a limb here, but I feel Frank would have still been the best hitter in that era. I don't think many guys out there were 6'5 250. Frank would have been a beast back then. Frank is my childhood hero. I even have a shrine in my office with a bunch of bobblehead dolls, autographed balls, an autographed bat, plaques, starting lineup figures, every mag he's ever been on the cover of, etc. That said, he could never f*** with Nap or Cobb.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 07:10 PM) Which kinda voids the arguement about Frank Thomas's streak of .300 30 100 100 out the window doesn't it? Could Frank have put up any one of those numbers in 1910, let alone all of them? Not a chance. That argument also kinda voids whatever Christy Matthewson, Mordecai Brown, Walter Johnson, Cy Young, Cleveland Alexander, and other legendary pitchers did in the Dead Ball Era as well.

QUOTE(rangercal @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 07:00 PM) Here's some food for thought. White sox team batting avg 1910 .211 the leader on the team was Patsy Dougherty with an avg of .248 That's an example how the rest of baseball was too. You don't think that affects a whip? Would you throw anything but strikes if you knew your competition was batting below .250? That's why no one ever got walked. It's not really about control. That's a good point. A 1910 leaderboard for averages: Lajoie-CLE .384 Cobb-DET .383 Speaker-BOS .340 Collins-PHA .324 Knight-NYY .312 Oldring-PHA .308 Easterly-CLE .306 Murphy-PHA .300 Delahanty-DET .294 Chase-NYY .290 Look at what the starting lineup for the 1910 Detroit Tigers hit, and then look at what all of their bench scrubs and pitchers hit: 1910 Detroit Tigers The average WHIP ratio in 1910 was between 1.25 and 1.30. Eddie Walsh had a WHIP of 0.81. That is an insane difference. You wanna talk about greatness?

QUOTE(rangercal @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 06:46 PM) I agree that whip is the BEST way to judge a pitcher. I just don't believe that his whip won't be higher in a different era. in 1910 walsh gave up 242 hits in 369 innings. Would he give up only 242 hits pitching 369 innings in 1970? I really don't think so. If the post in which I compared him to Matthewson, Brown, Johnson, and Alexander ain't enough to convince you that he's arguably one of the 10 greatest pitchers of all time and easily the most valuable player in Chicago White Sox history, then nothing will. Not to hijack this outstanding thread, but here are my Top 10 pitchers of all time: Walter Johnson Christy Matthewson Mordecai Brown Ed Walsh Sandy Koufax Bob Gibson Steve Carlton Pedro Martinez Randy Johnson Roger Clemens Honorable mention: Cy Young Tom Seaver Satchell Paige Lefty Grove Warren Spahn

QUOTE(rangercal @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 06:34 PM) Put it this way. No way in hell he would have a 1.82 era or whip under 1 in an even era. You don't think your competition help determines your whip? What would Mark buehrles WHIP be if he faced KC all his starts? What about Texas? Hammerhead, his whips would not be the same. I'm not sure that I'm following your logic, cal. His ERA wouldn't be anywhere close to 1.82...I conceded as much. But if you look at WHIP ratios over time for the legends, they're consistent. The best guys are always in the 1.05 to 1.15 range, whether it's Christy Matthewson in 1906 or Randy Johnson in 2004.

QUOTE(rangercal @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 06:01 PM) ed walsh no way in hell would have a whip under 1. Why not? You should say that there's no way in hell he'd have the best ERA in major league history at 1.82, but WHIP is a measure of control. He's gonna have that wicked control regardless of the era he plays in. I look at WHIP first and foremost in all cases when analyzing pitchers. It might be my favorite baseball stat, period. It's simple to understand, simple to explain, etc. W/L records are truly misleading. I know that some guys are gamers like a Russ Ortiz or whatever where you can just throw the stats out the window, because if the offense scores 6, he'll allow 5. If the offense scores 3, he'll allow 2. But in the vast, vast majority of cases, IMO W/L records aren't all that they're cracked up to be.

QUOTE(rangercal @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 07:09 AM) *cough* dead ball era *cough* That WHIP ratio in nearly 3000 IP tells me everything I need to know, actually. Compare with others from the Dead Ball Era: Ed Walsh: 0.99 WHIP/2964 IP, 1.82 ERA Christy Matthewson: 1.10 WHIP/4780 IP, 2.13 ERA Cy Young: 1.13 WHIP/7354 IP, 2.63 ERA Grover Alexander: 1.12 WHIP/5190 IP, 2.56 ERA Walter Johnson: 1.06 WHIP/5914 IP, 2.17 ERA Three Finger Brown 1.06 WHIP/3172 IP, 2.06 ERA Chief Bender 1.11 WHIP/3017 IP, 2.46 ERA Eddie Plank 1.20 WHIP/4495 IP, 2.35 ERA Jack Chesbro: 1.15 WHIP/2896 IP, 2.68 ERA Rube Waddell: 1.10 WHIP/2961 IP, 2.16 ERA Addie Joss: 1.03 WHIP/2327 IP, 1.89 ERA You see all of them legends? That's the golden age of pitching, right there, and the Sox had the guy with the best WHIP and the best ERA? And he ain't even an option on this list? I'm just saying.

Ed Walsh 2964 IP 195-126 0.99 WHIP 1.82 ERA That 1.82 ERA is the best for an SP in Major League history. Might as well throw him in as an option, yeah?

This positional chart is pure comedy: White Sox 1901-2004 Take a look at all of the third basemen who have played for us. IMO, Ventura is a no-brainer over Melton, Weaver, Kamm, etc. Weaver was a decent hitter. He hit .272 over his career. Melton hit .253, and Kamm hit .281. They weren't extraordinary offensive players by any means. I doubt that any of the three were better defensively than Robin Ventura. C- Carlton Fisk 1B- Frank Thomas 2B- Eddie Collins SS- Luke Appling 3B- Robin Ventura OF- Joe Jackson OF- Harold Baines OF- Magglio Ordonez DH- Nellie Fox Sorry, our outfielders suck historically. It's terrible. Check the positional chart. Pitching: 1. Ed Walsh 195-126, 0.99 WHIP/2964 IP 2. Eddie Cicotte 208-149, 1.15 WHIP/3223 IP 3. Ted Lyons 260-230, 1.34 WHIP/4160 IP 4. Red Faber 254-213, 1.30 WHIP/4160 IP (no typo, same as Lyons) 5. Billy Pierce 211-169, 1.26 WHIP/3306 IP Ed Walsh is one of the top 10 starters in the history of major league baseball. Look at that WHIP in innings pitched. He has a career 1.82 ERA, which is the best in history. He is our Christy Matthewson, our Sandy Koufax. Nobody even comes close in White Sox history. Early Wynn came to the Sox when he was 38 years old, but he still went 65-57. But in my mind, just like Tom Seaver and Steve Carlton, he shouldn't qualify for Top 5 SPs in our history, despite the fact that he's in the HOF.