joeynach

QUOTE(Pods20 @ Dec 10, 2006 -> 01:00 AM) I love the outgoing numbers but can we get a thread/post going on the income? 3million attendence*30= 90mill stadium rev? parking? concessions? TV rev? 670 rev=? mlb.com rev? I just would like to have a better idea of the money they have coming in before i comment on spending. Thats a tough thing to estimate. First of all I beleive the radio deal was for something like 2.5 to 3 Mil, the TV deal is much larger and I dont know the specifics, its not exactly public information. 7 Eleven also pays the sox 500K for the new time change. The other revenue you have to estimate, you say like $30 for a ticket, $17 for parking, $20 per person for food and perhaps $10 for souvaneirs at best. I still dont know you just have to estimate and take into account too many factors. Like not everyone pays for parking, not everyone buys beer, blah blah.

QUOTE(RME JICO @ Dec 9, 2006 -> 02:49 AM) joeynach, When I did an estimate mine came to around $107 million before deducting about $8-9 million from Thome/Vazquez deals. When I use your numbers and add them up I come up with $107.25. Where are you getting $98.85? Using your numbers it should be $107.25 and $98.75. Your off by $8.4 million unless I am completely missing something. You can probably plug Floyd into the bullpen spot instead of the veteran for $1.5. Cheat did an estimate at SSS and he came up with $98.15 after the cash deductions, so with the modified numbers you both look very similar. You are absolutly right my spreadsheet sum was wrong becuase i put those stars on the estimated numbers so it didn't total those in. So i fixed it now and I just updated the orignal post to reflect the changes it should be right now.

QUOTE(spiderman @ Dec 8, 2006 -> 10:18 PM) So, does the $90 million payroll include money coming from the Diamondbacks(Yankees) for Vasquez, and Phillies for Thome ? In addition, with MacDougle signing, what does the payroll increase to ? Nothing really 300K i plugged in 1.2 Mil for Mcdougal for 07 then today it was announced he'll make 1.5 Mil. Not a bad estimate on my part. QUOTE(spiderman @ Dec 8, 2006 -> 10:18 PM) So, does the $90 million payroll include money coming from the Diamondbacks(Yankees) for Vasquez, and Phillies for Thome ? In addition, with MacDougle signing, what does the payroll increase to ? Yes it inlcudes the money from Dbacks and Phillies that is the cash in.

Ok my new payroll projection, I corrected my Math error shows us at about 98 Mil as of right now. That leaves very little, only about 2 Mil give or take to perhaps get a backup catcher and perhaps 1 bullpen arm. I dont know what to make of our budget and if we are still going to spend anymore.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Dec 8, 2006 -> 01:05 AM) Might as well address this right now, because it will turn into a fifteen page thread otherwise -- Reinsdorf operates this club under a business model of, at worst, breaking even financially. I doubt anyone within the White Sox organization is stuffing their pockets with money. $10 million will be in use come 2007, whether it's for a various players' contract extensions or using it towards an acquired player's salary. How many times have we been over this. THe white sox owners and what not dont see any $$ from anything in the organzation unless they would sell the team. There is no pocketing money, they own the team based on the number of shares they own. Which have a value but dont equate to real dollars unless they are sold. So believe me dumping salary and bringing in kids does not up the value of the owners stocks.

QUOTE(bigruss22 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 04:03 PM) "We were the only 90-win team that didn't make the playoffs this year," he said. "And we still feel like, if we'd gotten there, we had a hell of a chance. But I've got a responsibility, a responsibility not just for now but for tomorrow. And even if we win in 2007, in Chicago if we spend 2008-09-10 losing 100 games, believe me, you're the village idiot. It doesn't matter what you've done before." Thought this was weird, considering it seems like Kenny is willing for the team to go back to the streaks of finishing second in the division instead of winning a championship and sacrificing some years. Maybe it is just me, but that 2005 year was so special that I would rather have another one of those years right now and go through some redevelopment phases later than go through another streak of second place finishes without even having a chance to win a WS. I understand the need for prospects, as I felt willing to trade a starting pitcher or two to upragde the current roster, but we are built to win now, and to waste that oppurtunity seems ridiculous to me. I think you need to understand that if this is our roster going into the season will probably compete for the division again and win 90+ games. We basically have removed ourself from two of the weaker pitching spots we had last year that cost us. All in all this team is built to win in 2007. When MB, and JD are FA after this year so be it, who knows where the market will be. So far I still beleive we have the best roster in the AL central. Im sorry but getting rid Garcia and Cotts is almost addition by subtraction they hampered us last year.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 02:25 PM) Yah, I think KW had all kinds of great offers and took the worst one out there just so he could stick it to the man.....right? KW is going to spend money, he's just not going to give Gil Meche 55 M and Ted Lilly 40 M. Our payroll will still be high. Of course not no one wants that garbage. But dont close the doors now on our guys now or future FA becuase u dont like the market in 2006. QUOTE(jphat007 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 02:25 PM) Yah, I think KW had all kinds of great offers and took the worst one out there just so he could stick it to the man.....right? KW is going to spend money, he's just not going to give Gil Meche 55 M and Ted Lilly 40 M. Our payroll will still be high. I think he could have waited a littel while and got a better deal. Even if the sox had to give Garcia + 1 prospect to get santana that would have been better. More major league ready, less hit or miss.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 02:18 PM) Gill I barely can pitch Meche just got a 5 year 55 to 60 million dollar deal. How much praytell do you think that Freddy will get. We had 2 pitchers who were going to become FAs at the end of this year, another next year and a few after that. Whom are you putting in the rotation to replace them when you dont give them all 5 year 75 and up for their services. Im not so sure the market will be the same next year or the year after. If there is a larger amount of FA pitching the prices should go down. THat could happen over the next couple years. This panic on todays market stuff is what Im talking about. And who knows maybe MB, JC, JG, or JV want to stay sox and give a nice hometown discount. Its the sox that seem more stubborn. Its has been documented they dont offer more than 3 year contracts to pitchers, that will not help your chances or keeping your FA's or getting new ones.

QUOTE(Princess Dye @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 02:14 PM) even while pursuing this year, teams have to make "win later" moves. even the biggest spenders have to do it. they're not terribly popular... but before 2005, we made some moves that could have been interpreted as "win later".... yet Ozzie created the "win now" atmosphere in the clubhouse in the end, that's what matters most. plus, there's a "win now" aspect to moving McCarthy into the rotation... if you ask me. if Garcia was really going to bring us a ton in return, i'd be disappointed. but i dont think he was. Im not that down on the Garcia trade I wanted him out and McCarthy in. But I still beleive we could have got better than Gavin Flloyd, a more MLB ready player. Its this landscape of now Garland being traded and KW saying he wont retain on of his pitchers after their terms are up. Thats the spitefule "I cant handle" this market mentality im talking about. Hence the firesale like trade rumors.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 02:08 PM) I don't think that he's being spiteful. It's more an issue of him not wanting to over-pay for the Randy Johnsons and A.J. Burnetts out there. Well thats fine I wouldn't either. But the sox aren't dumb they dont get involved with pitchers like that cuz they know they aren't that good. Those guys both posted 4 or 5+ Era and most people, like the sox, could see that coming. But there will be FA pitchers the sox want wheater hes a #1 or #4, they were hot after vazquez for awhile and found away to get him and pay him. KW seems so adamanet that he all of a suddent can't afford anything is whats so bothersome. Its like are u kidding, thats something the pirates are probably saying.

This Garcia trade and all his talk about not retaining any of his pitchers and not being comfortable with the years and dollars players are getting is really weird. It seems KW is being rather spiteful towards the landscape of baseball these days. No I know the sox dont offer more than 3 year contracts to pitchers and they dont hand out big sum contracts, which I agree with, but there is no need for this childish spiteful firesale of some sorts. The market changes all th time relax. Yes the sox probably wont ever be in the mix for top free agents with anything like 5 Years 70 Mil to 6 Years 100 Mil to any players ever and thats ok. KW is just one of 30 other GM's that has to deal with this ridicolous market, but that doesn't mean we have to act like the pirates. We still have a higher payroll and market. There is no need to panic KW giving pitchers 9-11 Mil is OK, especially cuz we all know pitching is everyting. He has stated time and time again he never again wants to be in that 5th starter situation. Well the only way he got out of it was to put a solid proven higher paid starter in that slot. Getting young arms that are unproven and projects isn't a gurantee to a solid pitching rotation, its a gamble. And at the moment a gamble that this team just does not need to take.

I was listening to the MLB channel on XM this morning and one of the updates was talking about info that has come out of the winter meetings so far. They said the rumored Garcia/Crede deal to the angels the sox were after John Lackey not Ervin Santana and that was probably the reasion if fell apart. Interesting.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 5, 2006 -> 04:52 PM) The Phils don't have the prospects I'd want to make this deal plausible. If somehow we got Rollins instead of Rowand than I'd listen and be quite interested. Both Madsen and Floyd are relatively talented but neither can be considered top prospects at this point anymore, imo. Both these guys suck Madson had a 5.69 ERA last year and Flloyd a 7+ ERA, not looking like top prospects to me more like guys the Phillies dont know what do with anymore. Gimmie Cole Hamels and u got a deal.

Here is what it says. Phillies GM Pat Gillick is reportedly willing to send Aaron Rowand and either Ryan Madson or Gavin Floyd to the White Sox for Freddy Garcia. It'd be a fair trade for both teams. We prefer the White Sox's side -- both Mark Buehrle and Javier Vazquez are more valuable properties than Garcia in our eyes -- but the Phillies probably wouldn't lose all that much going from Rowand to Shane Victorino.

The answer is quite simple. Boras always way overvalues his clients value, and to a smart non desperate GM his players just aren't worth the money or years he demands. Kw is smart and knows there is a difference between spending money and spending money wisely. The problem with Boras is there is always some GM with the money looking to make a splash looking to hand out some big bucks for a big name alone. Most if not all of Boras clients just really aren't worth their demands including crede. If crede demands Aramis Ramirez type money forget about it. Joe is not worth anything near 5 Years 70 Mil. Hes got a good glove but no where near the consistent offensive prowess as a hitter like Ramirez. Crede on the open market putting up something like .280/25/90 consistently is not worth anything near what Ramirez got.

QUOTE(Drew @ Dec 3, 2006 -> 07:09 PM) Joe Crede is likely a 25-100 guy who is an elite fielder in the American League and one we probably won't be able to afford to resign because of Scott Boras. Is A-Rod worth that plus a proven starting pitcher? I don't think so. I'm all for trading if it would help, but this is a lot better for the Yankees than it is for us. Not really. They get Crede who is only better than Arod with his glove, Arod is a better offensive player than crede period. Garcia walks after this year regardless of what team his with so hes basically a rent a player.

First of all I would trade crede but not until 2008 when he will be right at the door of free agency. That being said I would be in favor of trading Buehrle or Garcia (cuz they are FA next year) for bullpen, young pitching, or speed. But if they dont wind up tradining these guys then what. Well than we got guys who cant be any worse than they were in 06 at realativly bargain prices. Even if KW doesn't trade any and brings em back we have one of the best and most solid pitching staffs around. And we thought 53 Mil for 5 pitchers was absurd, we look like genious now. That being said thats a conflict of interest with McCarthy. I would love to have crawford and would give up McCarthy to get him, but Im just a fan. And it is becomeing more evident that affordable (and young) pitching might be the biggest gem, the biggest prize in all of baseball. And we have that in mccarthy who is ready to start, so It would be tough to trade him and leave an expensive hole to fill in 07 when guys like adam eaton, and radny wolf and their 4.5 ERA gets at least 8-9 Mil a year, yuck. So I beleive whatever KW does for this year isn't just for this year hes setting up our roster for the next few years.

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Nov 30, 2006 -> 03:43 PM) Really I am getting more convinced that Pods will be back in LF and we will use Anderson or Owens in CF with the other being the #4 OF'er along with guys like Ozuna and Gload once in awhile at LF. Unless we do something radical like trade for crawford or something I think we are gonna stay pat with Pods and other in house guys. Even though im desperate for an upgrade, espeically against lefties, I dont want to pay any free agents huge sums to play LF. I think our in house options and Pods at 3 Mil are way better options than anything out there besides crawford.

QUOTE(BobDylan @ Nov 30, 2006 -> 12:02 PM) Isn't he a butcher in LF? Nah hes a solid outfielder he always has a good fielding %, its just the injury risk. Word on the twins board is he is looking for some new shock therapy on his injured foot or something. He would be awsome for us if healthy, I would be in favor of a minor league deal, small risk high reward possility.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Nov 28, 2006 -> 08:18 AM) Has anyone heard this? Someone on the train asked me about this rumor yesterday, but I have yet to see it in print anywhere... Is this garbage, or is this something with some basis in reality? Thanks Its BS, some kid on the sox message board started it and even said so.

Roberts is set to sign a 3 year 15-18M deal with the Giants according to MLB4u.com. I dont want anything to do with him at that price and once again we are seeing the market produce overpaid over hyped average players get big and long paydays, yuck. So our search continues can Rocco Baldelli hit leadoff?

This is why Shannon stewart is becoming more and more intising. I know hes often injured but it would be a low risk if we could get him for an incentive laden deal with an option or something. If he can stay healty, which he might not playing on turf and with the best med staff in the game he could be huge for us. A .300 hitter with a .360 obp playing left field for an affordable price. If he did well I wouldn't hesistate to give him 3 years 21 mil or something.

Anyone else think this years FA market is completely overblown and out of whack. Just look at these ridiculous contracts for average and above average players, I dont think they are worth any of it. Matthews getting 5 years 50, Pierre 5 years 45, and now Carlos Lee getting 6 years 100 mil my gosh. This is ridiculous I dont think any of these players are worth that much, they probably arent even all stars let alone franchise players. Vlad and Tejada are bargains now, I really hope KW keeps hes head on straight and doesn't over pay for any guys who really aren't that good. Im sorry but I even find it hard to value carlos lee worth anything more than 10 mil and Pierre anything over 6 mil. I think standing pat is the right thing to do with the sox it will put us in better position a few years down the line than being strapped with overpriced aging one year wonders. I really think Pods is now a better option in LF than any other FA, our in house guys are better values than FA bullpen guys, etc. Anyone else agree?

QUOTE(IowaSoxFan @ Nov 22, 2006 -> 04:44 PM) 1. Sign Octavio Dotel - he should come with a reasonable price tag after his recovery season and is a low risk-high reward acquisition. If he returns to form he can spell Jenks and be a dominant set up man, if not he is a passable middle relief option. 2. Acquire Carl Crawford - Sending BA to the Marlins for a package of pitching prospects and then turning them with Fields to the Rays for Crawford should be enough to get that deal done. 3. Move a starting pitcher - Garland to the Rangers - Freddy to the Angels - Javier to the Mets Actually just do them all The first option isn't bad, but right now we need a lefty in our pen, Dotel is a righty. Crawford although a huge stud is a pipe dream, it would take at least McCarthy/Fields to get that done, at least. KW acknowledged that he needs to move a starter if he wants to add a couple a guys and move McCarthy to the rotation. Garcia and Buehrle are the closest to free agency so they would be likely to go. But they are only going to be moved if there is someone out there to buy, which was the point of freeing up their salary. With the way the market has been going, way way out of proportion, I really dont see this happening anymore. KW is not an idiot, hes not going to make a move for the sake of making it if its not going to be worth it over the life of the entire contract. If there is no free agent he wants to give $$ too then there is no reason to trade a starter to free up money.

QUOTE(winninguglyin83 @ Nov 22, 2006 -> 09:00 PM) Freel is a huge crowd favorite in Cincy -- and cheap for a cheap small market team. They've got no reason to trade him. Everyone has a price. Cincy is desperate for pitching, bullpen especially. Remember last year at the deadline they acquired any arm they could, even Gary Majewski. They are desperate for arms.