Marty34

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 22, 2013 -> 01:43 PM) Do what they did to ensure profitability right after that rebuild. Get the state of Illinois to buy them a brand new ballpark. I recall they fielded a legit World Series contender too.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 22, 2013 -> 01:28 PM) The last time the White Sox totally rebuilt was after a woeful 1986 season. Please expand on how interesting baseball-wise the summers of 1987,1988 and 1989 were for Sox fans. They did finish the attendance race in the AL those years in 12th, 13th and 14th place out of 14 teams. It's also the last time members of the ownership group were issued cash calls. So after the rebuild they were extremely profitable. What course of action do you recommend the Sox currently take?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 22, 2013 -> 01:10 PM) That extra $25 million is a joke. Everyone gets that. It doesn't help the Sox at all, because everyone is getting the same amount. And as has been posting a million times before, bad teams hurt revenues other places, such as advertising and TV contracts. If not rebuild, what course of action do you recommend?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 22, 2013 -> 12:46 PM) [/b] Considering there are basically no examples of a total tear down actually working in a relatively short period of time... Do you consider dealing Peavy, Rios, and floyd a total teardown?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 22, 2013 -> 10:21 AM) I believe the Sox TV deal goes through 2019. I'd rather not be in 60/70 win territory when that happens to come up. That's why you start now.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 22, 2013 -> 10:52 AM) A team with this record of draft picks and people around here want the Sox to go on a total rebuild. LMAO. LOL that's why they trade for other team's picks.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 22, 2013 -> 09:46 AM) The problem is once you lose those fans, it makes it harder to keep any existing crop of players you can develop, because those revenues aren't there anymore. It doesn't do any good to develop the next Frank Thomas, if you have to trade him away to someone who can afford to pay him. We see that all of the time in baseball, with any number of teams littering the sidelines as failed rebuilds who instead supply players to the teams who do have fans. Again, I have yet to see any really good examples of a full rebuild actually resulting in a World Series win, in any short amount of time (even say five years). The closest example I can really see would be Tampa Bay. But that wasn't a few years worth of a rebuild. That was a period of time from 1998 to 2007 where their highest win total was 70 wins. Most of these projects end up as abject failures. This is backwards logic.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 22, 2013 -> 07:08 AM) You do realize that if the Sox sell off, things like advertisers will flee along with attendance, right? You do realize he Sox would make money hand over fist under any scenario where they cut payroll 20-30%

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 21, 2013 -> 06:59 PM) Winning a World Series is much harder when you can't keep your good players around because the stadium is empty. The promblem has never been keeping good players it has been about acquiring good players. If Chairman Reinsdorf is not going to pay for free-agents, he needs to spend money on better scouting and development.

Ticket sales wise at least the Sox benefit from when the Cubs are drawing 40,000 per because if you want to see a MLB game you have to buy a Sox ticket.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 21, 2013 -> 06:58 PM) Call it silly all you want, but it is true. Sox fans won't stick around for a rebuild, which means it won't happen. If they lose 90 games this year and keep the same cast of characters next year do you really foresee ticket sales remaining the same?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 21, 2013 -> 06:04 PM) If they keep playing well enough that people will want them, we'll be competitive this year at some point. Competitive for what?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 21, 2013 -> 05:43 PM) They wouldn't have. But in that case, that's failure after failure. That's not deliberate destruction, that's a terrible job by the franchise. Here's a comparison. 5 or 6 consecutive years of losing despite trying to compete is like playing Russian roulette and loading 1 round into a revolver. If everything goes wrong, well, you know how that ends. Trying the Astros route, deliberately losing for half a decade and then hoping that you have prospects develop faster than the Royals/Pirates/whoever else has gone that route...for this franchise, that's like playing Russian roulette and loading 6 shots into the revolver. Even if everything goes 100% to plan, the franchise has still shot itself in the head. So do you keep Peavy and Rios?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 21, 2013 -> 05:35 PM) If it is all about the profit, then why wouldn't the team risk less and have a small payroll and do this rebuild for the people who can't take 2 weeks of bad baseball without walking to the ledge. Minimum 4 or 5 years of bad baseball will do nothing but make these people moan some more. The whining on this board has been taken to a new level. Do the posters on this board want the Sox to win a World Series or maximize profit?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 21, 2013 -> 05:22 PM) How will you avoid further erosion of their ticket and advertising base? 1.96 million isn't nothing. "The Kids can Play" year was 1.34 million in attendance. They still made money that year.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 21, 2013 -> 05:16 PM) Then they'll be on their 3rd GM and 4th coach, if nothing else. How would they have avoided moving or folding?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 21, 2013 -> 05:10 PM) Not if revenue decreases more. There are substantial costs associated with running the team other than payroll. If you slash payroll by 50%, you don't slash "Total expenses" by 50%. The White Sox will not lose money with a $70-80M payroll. Nobody went to the games last year and they made $20M on a $100M+ payroll.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 21, 2013 -> 05:09 PM) My response to anyone calling the Astros a positive example is going to be pretty simple. They had a game last year where 1100 people watched. On TV. The 4th biggest city in the country, with no competition, drew 1100 viewers on TV for a game last year. On a weekend. The Astros have 2 winning records since 2006, They have an 82 win season and an 86 win season. They've been under .500 for the last 4 years, they've sold off whatever talent they had, and they still are facing several more years of being the laughingstock of baseball and having no interest whatsoever before they'd be able to rebuild through the draft. The White Sox have legit competition in their area, even if that team is also terrible. The end result of a period of 5-8 years losing by the White Sox right now is going to be the end of the White Sox. They would either be moving or close to folding. The Chicago market will not be that forgiving. Oh, and welcome to the site . What if they don't rebuild and still go through a period of 5-8 years of losing?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 21, 2013 -> 11:22 AM) Fans still hold white flag against the team, which is exactly why the White Sox can't do a full rebuild. Attendance was down in a season where we were in first place for all of the season except the last week or so. Can you imagine what would happen in a full blown sell off? Sox fans are the ones who have made a full rebuild impossible. Blaming the fans is silly. The fans didn't hire a minor league director who was actively looking for players who wouldn't make it to the big leagues so that he could embezzle from the organization. Besides a rebuild means a lower payroll which means larger profit. If you want to make the case they aren't going to rebuild because Chairman Reinsdorf is getting along in years and wants to wuin another World Series I wouldn't argue with you.

QUOTE (joeynach @ Apr 21, 2013 -> 11:28 AM) I have tried to make this point in the past. The White Sox are a franchise that understands their fan and revenue base quite well. The cubs can get away with the tear down, stock high draft picks, develop talent, rebuild process, the White Sox can not. Demand for Cubs brand in general is much more inelastic (to performance) than the White Sox. The White Sox are highly dependent upon on field performance in order to drive interest, revenue, tickets, viewership, etc. The Cubs are not. If the White Sox tore it down to rebuild for half a decade you would see Miami Marlin like payroll, attendance, viewership, attention, interest, etc etc. The franchise would essentially become an afterthought in a huge market, so they will never do it, for better or for worse. Its pretty obvious the White Sox value 78-85 win seasons differently than we do as fans. Those are exactly what an earlier poster is talking about, season outlooks that with a little luck turn into 90 win seasons and playoff berths, without, turn into medicore record wise, but successful seasons financially (the Sox made a lot of $$ last year with 85 wins). So they have very little incentive to go all in every year Angels or Dodgers spending style, nor do they have incentive to tear it down and go into the cellar for half a decade. So they middle it, we all know this, it's no secret. I get the distinct impression that people tired of the 78-85 win teams last year. They'd rather see a 70-win team that has promise than whatever is out there now.

QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Apr 21, 2013 -> 10:51 AM) I wonder if this team financially can't do the full rebuild because 7 people will attend each game. Their payroll would be at least $30M lower in a rebuild and the lease guarantees them something like 1.5M in ticket sales.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 21, 2013 -> 09:14 AM) I agree. The only guy the Sox could trade for impact prospects is Sale. Really? Define impact.

QUOTE (SoxPride56 @ Apr 21, 2013 -> 09:18 AM) I think it is more then just Robin's fault. Yes, he has made some (a lot) of in game mistakes. There have been many of times I am screaming at my TV "why the f*** are you doing this!!!" I have thrown the remote so many times, that now my dog thinks it is a game, and runs to go fetch it, and brings it back to me. Kind of nice of him if you ask me. But getting into why I think it is more then just Robin's fault. Outside of 2005, a year that every Sox fan will appreciate to the day they die, this Sox team just has been bad. I know they win the division in 2008, but that team had a lot of flaws, and only won because Hahn's son called the coin flip correctly. This is an organizational problem. From top to bottom. I understand we have made some changes, and it can not happen over night, but it seems like they are still attracted to the same, all or nothing, type hitter. I feel this organization is just out to be ok each year, and with some luck (2008), they will make the playoffs, and see what happens from there. That isn't going to work, not when Detroit isn't going anywhere for the next few years, and KC is up can coming. Being ok with hoping for luck will get you in 3rd place every year. Truthfully, I don't care if we finish 0-162 if we don't make the playoffs. What's the difference? A few thousand fans overall in attendance, and a worse draft pick? I know that rebuilding will not draw the casual fan, but those fans don't come up unless we are winning anyway. I would have no problem if we just tore it down, sucked for 5 years, and at least had a plan. I hate to say this, but something like what the Cubs are doing. Will it work for them, or any other team that tries it? Who knows. But what I do know, is this middle of the pack, average team year in and year out is not working, so you might as well try something different. Right now, IMO, the best thing that can happen is we either go on a lucky run, or we tank it. Trade off Rios, Peavy, and any other player that will fetch you something of value in return. Start the process of building a team that can win in a few years, get a top 5 pick this year. I honestly think it is going to get much worse on the field, before it gets better, but if that "much worse" includes the Sox having a new direction on how to build an organization, that is something that I am ok with. Sorry for my little rant, I just hate when we suck, and right now, we suck. The only conclusion I can draw from the Sox being ambiguous about their direction is because they don't want criticism. It's very unfair to the fans, imo. Say this for the Cubs, they've been upfront with their fans about what they are doing.

When Hahn feels the Sox need a game manager he'll bump Ventura up to player development and re-hire Guillen. .

QUOTE (flavum @ Apr 20, 2013 -> 05:43 PM) I'm sorry, but this is good for the future of the Sox. Keep losing and be forced to make moves in July. For no other reason than they share the same city, are the Cubs better situated than the Sox at this point in time?