Marty34

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 13, 2013 -> 03:49 AM) Unfortunately, some other people have seriously suggested this idea. I don't understand this. No one is suggesting Chris Sale isn't a valuable commodity. There is a deal that would benefit the Sox involving Sale, it's just extremely unlikely.

Who are these free agents who are going to propel this offense to a 90-win team in 2014?

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ May 12, 2013 -> 01:48 PM) Yea, my posting history is filled with threads where I think up a bunch of hypothetical trades and signings. You said my ideas were awful. Must have some armchair GM in you to come to that conclusion.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ May 12, 2013 -> 01:34 PM) Armchair GM was never a game that appealed to me. Something about this statement just doesn't ring true.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 12, 2013 -> 01:26 PM) Which is why you kept suggesting Josh Hamilton last offseason. I suggested if you are not going to rebuild, add. No way they were going to sign Hamilton, but standing pat was just as silly.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 12, 2013 -> 01:16 PM) And so the solution is to get one of the horses they do have...because we like losing! Because he's on the wrong side of 30 and been in steady decline.

QUOTE (Disco72 @ May 12, 2013 -> 01:17 PM) As I read the board these days, I see a lot of difference of opinion as to when the Sox can be competitive again. What do you think? My own opinion is rather optimistic, despite the terrible season so far this year. As I noted in another thread, the Sox have the one thing that is hardest and most expensive to find and acquire: affordable, effective, and mostly young pitching. Also in the Sox favor is the lack of terrible contracts. Even the ones people complain about really are not all that bad when you look at the buffet of awfulness that exists across the league for contracts. At least the unproductive ones (e.g., Dunn) have only one more year (2014) or have hope that the player can still produce at the major league level (e.g., Danks). The Sox also have not spent (we believe) the extra money coming to them from MLB for media rights, and they have that pitching staff in place for several more years at a pretty affordable rate. IMO, the current team would be in position to compete for 88-90 wins if the offense and defense were at least league average. I think these can be rebuilt at a reasonable price (in terms of trades or free agents). Instead of spending for that big $20 million+ bat, I think the Sox can compete with a 'balanced' offense, and as others have noted in other threads, players will be available in the offseason that fit this bill. This is in addition to anything that could be acquired via trade during the season or offseason. My own vote is 2014. I think Hahn has his work cut out for him, but I think he can do it without blowing up the strength of the current team. There just aren't enough quality position players available to turn this thing around in one offseason. 2017.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 12, 2013 -> 12:58 PM) Put the entire roster through another intensive fundamentals based spring training. They don't sleep until they hit a cutoff man. That got the team to 85 wins last year on its own. Find a bat that Marty doesn't want (since Marty thought adding Hamilton would have been a great idea last offseason). Look, you had this team winning 90 games before the season so I can understand why you are holding on to this fundamentals angle, but quite simply this team doesn't have the horses.

QUOTE (Disco72 @ May 12, 2013 -> 12:45 PM) This just is not true. The offense and defense are underperforming, but the Sox have both affordable and young pitching in the rotation and the pen. I'd say at least 20 of the 30 teams in MLB have more upside than the Sox. Particularly if you count the minor league systems.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 12, 2013 -> 12:32 PM) Why are you surprised I'd disagree? I'm not surprised one iota that you'd disagree. The Sox could have a 10 game lead in the division and you'd think the solution is to trade Alexei Ramirez. That's not true at all. How do you rebuild this team around Ramirez in order to win 90 games?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 12, 2013 -> 12:26 PM) So let's see...the Sox are losing games because of poor, sloppy, ineffective defense. The solution...the Sox should take the guy leading the team in defensive WAR, trade him for scraps, take a guy who is a legitimately solid 2b, move him to a position he hasn't played in 5 years, and viola...success! Alexei Ramirez is not going to be the SS on the next Sox playoff team. I'm surprised you disagree.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ May 12, 2013 -> 12:19 AM) That's absolute bulls***. The Sox have tried to sign FA's and been successful few times. They've even tried to overpay. (Hunter) You guys look at every team as if they're equal, and they're not. One of the reason I liked KW was that he understood that he had to be unorthodox and aggressive to win here. It's not a coincidence that he's a Raiders fan. He had some Al Davis in him. Yeah, sometimes he took huge risks and struck out, but he always fielded a competitive team that was capable of making noise. He drafted low ceiling/high floor players to fill roster spots and tried to get impact players through trades. It didn't work out, but I get his philosophy and think it was a good one. All teams aren't created equal, and the Sox aren't an attractive organization. That's the reality. All things equal, free agents don't want to play on the south side. The Sox don't play at the top of the free agent market so there's no way of knowing whether this is true.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ May 11, 2013 -> 11:20 PM) I don't think many people are against tearing it all down. The problem is that your ideas are awful. The roster has very little upside/value. There are no ideas that aren't awful. Maybe though you have a few to share.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ May 11, 2013 -> 05:27 PM) And you want to make it 1 (playoff appearance) in 20 years. It's on that course as is. Outside of maybe Viciedo and perhaps Beckham there isn't a position player currently on this team who will be on it the next time they make the postseason.

QUOTE (bbilek1 @ May 11, 2013 -> 05:10 PM) This thread is ridiculous. Just gazing through it and I see all of this. 1.) Release Alexei Ramirez, our best defender and one of the more productive SS's in baseball. 2.) Replace him with the least productive offensive player in baseball who has not played SS since '08. 3.) Replace him with Beckham. 4.) Bat Gillaspie 1st. 5.) Bat De Aza 3rd. Ban OP and throw out the key. It's May 11th. Wait two months and let the bats warm up and see where the team is. If by the middle of July we still suck, trade Thornton, Crain, Lindstrom, De Aza, Konerko (if we can) and Rios/Alexei/Peavy if we get good offers. Use the rest of the season as a tryout for Flowers, Phegley, Beckham, Gillaspie, Viciedo and maybe even Jordan Danks. Also see the real potential of Axelrod, Quintana and Santiago. Make a couple targeted moves and spend a little new money and out pitching should keep us at least competitive for the immediate future. People throw around the word "competitive" as if that's the goal. Minnimum goal should be what Flavum mentioned 90 wins.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 11, 2013 -> 01:57 PM) I don't understand why Marty wants to get rid of Ramirez's contract. Doesn't Chairman Reinsdorf make enough money? I only want changes IF they improve the team, Dick Allen.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 11, 2013 -> 12:28 PM) I actually love this idea. I really like Alexei, but we need to add more OBP and a couple left-handed bats to the lineup. If we keep on struggling, here's what I do between now and 2014. Deadline deals (all for prospects): Ramirez Konerko (if a team wants him) Thornton Crain Lindstrom Move Beckham to SS, play Keppinger at 2B, play Dunn at 1B, call up some AAA arms to replace the relievers traded (I'd like to see Simon Castro be one of them). Offseason: Sign McCann ($15m/per), Utley ($12/per), & Morales ($8/per) and a couple cheap veteran relievers. Money wise I think it's doable (with Alexei's contract off the books), whether you can sign them all is another story. Run with the following offense: 1) De Aza, CF 2) Utley, 2B 3) Rios, RF 4) McCann, C 5) Morales, 1B 6) Viciedo, RF 7) Gillespie, 3B 8) Dunn, DH 9) Beckham, SS Still have a rotation of Sale, Peavy, Danks, Quintana, & Santiago. Seems to me this would be a pretty good team and would allow our system to keep developing. Too much money on injury prone players on the wrong side of 30. Anyway, Sox would have to outbid teams for their services and that isn't going to happen.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 11, 2013 -> 11:07 AM) Actually, Rodriguez is probably an excellent comparison for how little the Sox should actually expect back for Peavy. Bunch of guys who have contributed little to not at all, and maybe 1 guy who could turn into something useful but who needs a lot of time to develop. Maybe. However, they aren't going to win anything with Peavy.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 11, 2013 -> 10:56 AM) Sorry, meant to write Wandy Rodriguez, wrong name came out there. Gotchya. Point still stands.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 11, 2013 -> 10:55 AM) I would trade Alexei and give Beckham a shot at SS the rest of the year. Sox have some promising 2B in the system, and Beckham's value to the organization increases mightily if he can play a decent SS. Good idea. Could live with his range, just wonder about his arm. Didn't he develop some soreness at one point when he was over at third?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 11, 2013 -> 10:40 AM) They did exactly what you want us to do with guys like Pence and Tavares. And the end result has been...55 win seasons. It's an incredibly beautiful example of the end result of your plan to give everyone away. Tavares are you serious?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 11, 2013 -> 10:40 AM) They did exactly what you want us to do with guys like Pence and Tavares. And the end result has been...55 win seasons. It's an incredibly beautiful example of the end result of your plan to give everyone away. Okay, what's your plan to compete in 2014. How do you use this money?

QUOTE (flavum @ May 11, 2013 -> 10:34 AM) What I would do... Keep Chris Sale and Hector Santiago Since they aren't going to compete in 2013 or 2014, try to make good deals with the rest of the roster--not necessarily trading all of them, but listen on anyone else on the roster, and try to build a winner for 2015--but also have an organization in place that's better suited to compete every year. Hopefully over the next couple years, some of the players the Sox drafted come along, Erik Johnson, Scott Snodgress, Chris Bassitt, Chris Beck, Micah Johnson, of course Courtney Hawkins, Trayce Thompson, Keenyn Walker....and then further along some of the international signings they made last year get in the system and produce some fruit. In my opinion, it's time for the Sox to take their medicine for a couple years (not five). Keep in mind this will be five years without the postseason, and the Sox are a coin flip away from not making the postseason since 2005. So whatever they've been doing hasn't worked. As far as the front office, I'm not down on Hahn yet. It's an incomplete grade at this point. I wish Kenny Williams would leave the organization, so there's a clear decision maker in Hahn. And of course Ventura will be out after 2013 or 2014. I'm hoping he steps aside after this season. I agree with this. I thought they could keep both Santiago and Quintana, but there are too many holes offensively. Quintana might be able to bring back something decent. When KW does leave the organization, I wouldn't be surprised to see LaRussa take his spot.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 11, 2013 -> 10:36 AM) Right now? nobody. It's bleeping May 11th. It was at one point May 11th the last seven seasons and we have 1 playoff win.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 11, 2013 -> 10:34 AM) They're selling off every piece with any trade value, removing all of their big contracts, saving as much money as possible by moving bad deals like Carlos Lee for scraps, losing every single year, winning 55 games a year, cutting their attendance to 1.6 million last year, cutting their payroll to $20 million this year, and winding up with a borderline top 10 system after more than half a decade of losing. You know, exactly what your post wants the White Sox to do. Alexei Ramirez is single-handedly keeping White Sox attendance up? Lamenting the loss of Carlos Lee, are you kidding me??