fathom

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Aug 8, 2006 -> 09:16 PM) I enjoyed it plenty. I'm just not big on the "in your face, we're kicking your ass" mentality. I don't like to celebrate until it's over or else I feel like it might come back to bite me in the ass. Karma, sort of. And for me, the entire playoffs was like one big game. I didn't move from the same spot for any of the games, wore the same sweatshirt, had the same little habits during the games. EDIT: And just to clarify that my mentality isn't always negative, I had a real feeling that Konerko was gonna hit a grandslam. We didn't have a lead of greater than 2 runs during the whole World Series. They were great games, but you could never feel too comfortable in them.

QUOTE(Hangar18 @ Aug 8, 2006 -> 08:53 PM) there were 17 other posts before he FINALLY chimed in on something, and only then to rip on something someone else said, rather than comment on his views. He never really said anything that wasnt already said in this thread, but maybe im just troubled that you Toasted his post, as if he were the first guy to say what he said. Im simply saying he wasnt. Jake, if anything had something easy to say that probably defines us. My using the cubs was simply a way to compare the two of us (which would show just how different we are from the casual fan) Unfortuneately, the point was lost. Mind you, I wasnt the first one to use that other team in this thread, which again was lost, and was a good point also I just liked his post because not only did he say that the expectations were high, but he also pointed out that this team was underachieving and yet the season isn't over yet.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Aug 8, 2006 -> 08:46 PM) He's been on my ass for a while. Who cares? And I'm sure a whole lot of people were sure not to be too overconfident. I bet even more did a lot of stupid things in order not to jinx the team. Yeah...I see absolutely nothing wrong with what you posted in that. The people that didn't have some type of superstition were probably the people who went to bed after the 11th inning of Game 3.

QUOTE(Hangar18 @ Aug 8, 2006 -> 08:44 PM) naaahhh, he simply waited to see what others would say, then put them into his own "views" much like a Jay Mariotti would. I give credit to the many others who posted earlier, their views. Jim and I don't always get along, but I can safely say he's the last person who will take what others say and then try to post it as his own opinion.

QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Aug 8, 2006 -> 08:38 PM) that's what interests me, how Freddy is going to mix it up. I hate it when he tries to live outside with nothing but offspeed junk. It's weird, but our entire staff seems to have trouble keeping breaking balls down. When your velocity is down, you don't get as much break on your pitches. Instead, they become floating pitches that have a lot less bite on them. Also, the opposition is not nearly as off-balanced, as they don't have to protect against the strong fastball.

QUOTE(Controlled Chaos @ Aug 8, 2006 -> 08:40 PM) haha...Dude you need to enjoy life more. The pessimism just oozes out of you... Come on....leave the critical posts for a different thread.

QUOTE(Hangar18 @ Aug 8, 2006 -> 08:36 PM) I think your a little quick to Hoist the Beverages for that particular post, as there were about 20 other posts that already said the same thing ................. so to the others who posted before, No, it was precise and to the point. It took into account what a few others said, and it summarized the point perfectly.

Good thread. I will never forget the feeling I had when Konerko hit the grand slam. It was so surreal. That's definitely the moment that stands out to me when I think about the WS. As Scoop Jackson said in his article for ESPN.com, the WS was over on that swing.

QUOTE(Allsox @ Aug 8, 2006 -> 07:50 PM) The White Sox have problems against pitchers with good changeups. If Wang's sinker is floating, Thome will light him up all night. Just need Pods and Gooch to get on base though. Oh, and Freddy to man up and stop throwing junk all night long and pound some Yankees inside. Garcia's game plan was to pound it inside on the Yankees last time, and after two bombs by Jeter and ARod, he had to change his strategy. Their hitters are too patient/strong to try to bust 87 mph fastballs in on their hands.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Aug 8, 2006 -> 07:11 PM) Interestingly enough, I think it's entirely possible for the Yankees to look at us and say exactly the same thing. Except that their pitchers have been doing what you ask a lot more than ours have. I love the mixture of speed, power, and on base ability of the Yankees with Abreu and Cano in their lineup now. I think our offense has been great basically all season, but this Yankees lineup impresses me more than any other team's lineup.

QUOTE(JimH @ Aug 8, 2006 -> 06:59 PM) Well, now you do. The negativity of this year's Sox fan comes from the high expectations as many posters have correctly noted. However the negativity has nothing to do with the Cubs, Cub fans, etc. The negativity is focused inward, on the White Sox team, because they haven't performed up to snuff. There is still time but they will have to play a lot better. Tied for the wildcard at this point, it's a dead heat. They need to find a way to play better, to do everything better. Above is all that needs to be said about this argument. The season isn't over yet...and a win or loss tonight won't decide our future. After every win, people start planning our postseason rotation. After every loss, people start planning their October vacation.

If Cano really is back for the series tonight, we're going to be facing the best lineup in all of baseball. If our pitchers can't make big pitches in clutch situations, we're going to see more 5 and 6 run starts by our starters.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Aug 8, 2006 -> 01:13 PM) Reading the morning paper it looks like Buerhle finally has figured out what is causing him to struggle. Its not lights in a scoreboard helping hitters, its not the catcher, its not the high change-ups or the meatball 84 mph fastballs right down the middle of the plate, it turns out its QuesTec's fault. Thank God thats figured out. Don Cooper was just on the Mike North show, and he blamed QuesTec also. My question is that if we're going to whine about our pitchers not getting the corners, then we might as well get rid of Buehrle, and try to bring in someone who can get a strikeout.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Aug 8, 2006 -> 12:18 PM) Amazingly, this team is still one of the top 5 or 6 in all of baseball and would be a favorite in the first round of the playoffs. How so? Against quality teams, can we really expect 3 good starts by our starters?

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Aug 8, 2006 -> 05:52 AM) And then people would diss Ozzie for overworking the bullpen. This team is built on starting pitching. Hell, nearly half this team's damn payroll is tied up in the starting rotation. If they don't perform, there's really not much Ozzie can do. And it's not like we've got the Angels' bullpen, either. I've been saying all year that we need our 5 starters to step up and lead this team. However, that's not happening, and it seems like the only person who hasn't realized yet that these pitchers continue to give up late runs is Ozzie Guillen (and the PFB). Right now, the offense is what is our best asset, followed by our relievers, followed by our starting pitching. To say Ozzie can't do anything to help the starting pitching though is ridiculous. There's no need for them to start the 7th inning nearly every game, especially when they're fatigued. Wasn't McCarthy supposed to be on the roster to prevent the exact crap that we're seeing this year?

QUOTE(greg775 @ Aug 8, 2006 -> 05:48 AM) No I wouldn't take Kelly over Ozzie. Ozzie is the chicago White Sox like Ditka is the Bears. GO OZ. Go SOX. Probably a bad idea to compare Ozzie to Ditka. Wasn't it all downhill for Ditka with the Bears after the Super Bowl year? Is Sean Tracey his Jim Harbaugh?

QUOTE(greg775 @ Aug 8, 2006 -> 05:47 AM) I hope Oz is our manager for the next 20 years. It ain't easy to repeat folks. It ain't his fault our bullpen is average to bad and our starters' arms are falling off after last year's excellence. Our bullpen right now has no one over a 4 ERA. If Ozzie had as much confidence in them as he does our starters, maybe we'd be able to win some of these close games before a one run deficit becomes a 3 run deficit.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Aug 8, 2006 -> 05:47 AM) I love Oz but I hope the Alomar experiment is over. AJ shoulda been playing tonight. Mark B can pitch to anybody. Alomar is no savior of Mark and AJ woulda been a nice lefty bat in there. I hope Oz is our manager for the next 20 years. It ain't easy to repeat folks. It ain't his fault our bullpen is average to bad and our starters' arms are falling off after last year's excellence. I know they were trying to have Alomar resurrect Buehrle, but now what happens is that AJP has to face the tough lefty in Johnson this week instead of playing tonight against Escobar.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Aug 7, 2006 -> 04:44 AM) If the Sox really wanted to risk it, they could go with a Haeger or Phillips for a couple of starts, send B-Mac back down to AAA to let him start, or even keep him in the bullpen to let him keep doing what he's doing basically. The idea still has merit when you look at how Freddy has pitched lately. Freddy has his work cut out for him his next 3 starts. If he does poorly in all of them, there's going to be a lot of talk about him getting replaced by McCarthy and then traded in the offseason.

QUOTE(shoota @ Aug 8, 2006 -> 05:41 AM) Ozzie is partly to blame for the performance of the starting rotation because of the way he used it. There is a lot of truth in this. It's amazing how many times our starters are giving up like 2 runs in the 7th inning, and that's really blowing up their ERAs. I would love to know what the team ERA is by inning. QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Aug 8, 2006 -> 05:44 AM) He hasn't used them any differently than last year. They haven't performed. Period. And when your guys are underachieving/fatigued, it might be best to pull them sooner, rather than later. I know this stat has been brought up a million times tonight, but our relievers have thrown the fewest innings in the AL this season.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...-home-headlines At least Buehrle's not trying to make excuses.

QUOTE(DABearSoX @ Aug 8, 2006 -> 04:46 AM) By your logic, if he would have brought in Neal or BMAC or whoever and they gave up the runs it would still be his fault. He stuck with the guy too long, he brought in the wrong guy.....it doesn't matter you will always use him as a scapegoat.....HE IS NOT THE ONE ON THE PITCHERS MOUND.....that kind of situation was almost always automatic for MB....Ozzie did something that NO OTHER WHITE SOX MANAGER DID IN 88 YEARS......if he is such a bad manager and couldn't use a bullpen how the hell did we win 99 games last year, and and by the way A RING TOO.... PITCHING and DEFENSE WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS....something this team can't seem to grasp anymore...... Yep, and our starting pitchers continue to implode. They look absolutely fatigued out there...but we keep trying to get as many outs as possible out of them. This isn't 2005 anymore...these starters aren't going 7 innings and then turning it over to Politte/Cotts/Jenks or Hermanson.

I RARELY say anything nice about Ozzie, but I have more confidence in him than I did Manuel that he'll be able to push a button that makes this team get going.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Aug 8, 2006 -> 04:17 AM) Oh come on, Fathom. As a person who has MLB Extra Innings and gets to see LOTS of baseball daily, you're really overexaggerating things. -I don't see how you can blame the baserunning problems on Ozzie. Half the lineup (Konerko/Thome/Pierzynski/Crede) is slow as hell. Our fastest guy doesn't seem very smart on the basepaths. Other than that, you have some average or slightly above/below guys. As far as taking the extra base, those things are on the players, IMO. It's on the guy on first base to see were to see if the RFer is guarding the line or shading the gap, etc etc. -Again, defensively, I don't think you can complain about our guys this year. They're in the top third in DER this season, and were first last season. How many times do we see fielders nearly collide? I don't recall this happening too many times, other than the Iguchi/Dye play, and again -- I don't know how Ozzie factors into that one. -Bunting? Well, I don't think that's for a lack of effort. I believe Hawk when he says the Sox have worked on their bunting this year more than last. Again, IMO, that's something that's on the players... I'm not saying Ozzie is perfect. His handling of Buehrle tonight was awful. His handling staff of the starters this year, for the most part, has been awful. His playing Mackowiak in centerfield so often has been awful. But there's also a lot of overexaggeration in this thread, IMO. As I said, watching a lot of baseball games every day, and seeing others fans' thoughts on their own managers; well, let's just say I'm okay with Ozzie. I don't think there are fans of any team in baseball who never complain about their own. It's just unfortunate that our manager's decisions hold so much more weight this year because our f***ing starters suck... About once every series, you will see two Sox fielders not communicate well and almost knock each other over. Our base running is awful. How many times will our guys get in a run-down going home with less than 2 outs? Also, our 3rd base coach is awful! Lately, he's been more aggressive when we're down 3 runs than he's been when the game is close. Do you honestly believe we're a fundamentall sound team? I'm not blaming Ozzie specifically for this being a poorly coached team. The only coach earning his paycheck this season is Walker (the whipping boy in previous years). The pitch-calling this season has been puzzling, to say the least. You bring up a good point about our team speed. I think some changes might have to be made to add more speed if possible. SS could be a position where we could upgrade our speed for next season.

Baj comes in for Arizona, and allows 2 homers, 3 hits, against his first 4 batters. Funny enough, the one guy he gets out is Bonds.