fathom

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 04:29 PM) Freddy's throwing harder than 86. He's consistently around 87-89 and can reach back to throw 90-93 if he wants to. And if KW decides to deal him, there's a good chance that the Sox are going to have to eat a large portion of his contract. And B-Mac will be forced into the #5 spot, which means that the Sox will need two relievers in return to gain anything out of the deal. I don't see it happening. I haven't seen him above 91 mph on a legit gun this season. Also, it doesn't matter what he can max out at. If he's consistently around 88 mph the whole game, he's going to get crushed.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 04:29 PM) Tom Gordon Tom Gordon + Cole Hamels? Ok. For the short-term, Gordon is more valuable than Milledge. We all know that we're focused on the next 2 seasons as our "window".

QUOTE(LVSoxFan @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 04:28 PM) I second that. I'm seeing starting pitching as the issue, not the bullpen. Addition by subtraction.

QUOTE(redandwhite @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 04:25 PM) I'm shocked that Garcia' stock has hit rock bottom amongst fans. Why's that? He lost his fastball, which in turns makes his offspeed pitches easier to lay off of. He doesn't hold on runners, which is pathetic since he allows even more base runners right now. His K rate has drastically declined in the last few years. He's honestly the one pitcher I watch on the team and I wonder, how does he get anyone out?

QUOTE(RME JICO @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 04:25 PM) I don't see Mackowiak going anywhere this year. Tim Kurkjian on BB 2nite said the Mets were looking at Livan Hernandez and didn't mention the Sox. That is actually a pretty good sign that something is in the works, because everyone knows how KW works. Maybe the Sox could get Castro back with the deal. You mean the back-up catcher? I'll pass. He has some attitude issues. The thing people forget about Widger is that he's our player rep. Thus, he's going nowhere during the season.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 04:20 PM) I don't know about that, the Dbacks got a pretty damn good return for Javy. Ha, no kidding. What I meant was that enough time went by this summer where if the Mets wanted him, they could have jumped in on the bidding. And why would the Mets care about Garcia being locked up next year? With their money, they could either try to trade for Willis then or sign Zito/Schmidt. They're rumored to be a big player for Zito, and having Garcia's contract on the books would only hurt them. I'm going to make the prediction that we don't trade any of our starters this year.

If it is Johnson on the mound, does Thome play? Pablo in that spacious LF might be comical.

QUOTE(redandwhite @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 04:16 PM) I think things change. The mets are in a diar need for starting pitching, saying months prior that Milledge isn't available no longer has any meaning. Once again, things change. I actually agree with you on this. However, I think they'd try to get back into the Willis race or go after someone like Schmidt. I can't see Minaya giving up Milledge for Garcia and Vazquez. Vazquez didn't exactly impress the New York community when he was there with the Yankees. If the Mets really coveted him, he would have been traded to them in the offseason.

If we make a deal, besides getting a solid reliever, we should also get some prospects that could be used in order to try and get Carl Crawford in the offseason. We already have one great chip to use (Fields).

We have enough off days early on in this 2nd half where we'd be able to get by with only having 4 starters for a time.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 04:03 PM) Am I the only one who thinks it'd be silly to get rid of a starter for bullpen help that, really, we don't need? Not if that starter is Garcia. There's been a lot of great posts in this thread about why he should be the one that goes. I know I wouldn't mind not seeing his 88 mph finesse s*** the rest of the way. I would be so unbelievably proud of KW/Ozzie if they trade one of the underachieving starters.

Any trade we make that gets rid of Garcia would be terrific! He's so washed-up, and it wouldn't shock me if his ERA reaches 6 by the end of the season. We'd be a better team with McCarthy in the rotation and adding another reliever.

QUOTE(redandwhite @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 02:35 AM) Good point. I agree. The Reds should have and could have gotten more for what they gave up. Look no further than tonights Reds game to see why that team needs some bullpen help, and quick. They also pitched Standridge in the 9th, and he typically wouldn't see the field in a close game. I'm not saying they didn't need relief help....I'm just stunned at who they had to give up.

All I know is that if you would have told me the Reds would trade Lopez, Kearns, and Wagner, I would have expected them to get a lot better major league talent than what they acquired. In my opinion, that type of package could have gotten you guys like R. Soriano and another pitcher.

QUOTE(redandwhite @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 02:10 AM) It's not an ass rape, and anyone who thinks so doesn't follow enough baseball. Bray, Majewski are both above average relievers. The Reds had a terrible bullpen, and were terrible defensively. It makes sense to trade what you have depth at for something you don't have anything at. Kearns is putting together a good season, yes sir, and I think he'll continue to do that, but Bray's got closer material written all over him. I'd say its about even with a slight edge on pure talent, not precisely team need, going to Washington. What has Bray done to be considered an above average reliever? His ERA was nearly 4 in AAA, and it's about the same in the majors. Adding a lefty reliever in that division doesn't make a lot of sense, as almost all of the best hitters in the NL Central are righty. The Reds were winning games with their offense, and going from Lopez to Clayton is a significant offensive downgrade.

QUOTE(tigerfan @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 02:14 AM) Game over, 6-4 your final. I don't think Tigers fans should be content with this win. The Royals outplayed the Tigers tonight, but just threw the ball away in the 5th inning. And yes, I understand how ridiculous a comment like this is.

I like Burke, but I'd be stunned if the Astros traded him. He's there long-term starter at 2nd base once Biggio finally retires. QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 12:35 AM) why would the astros who just added Huff want to trade Burke or Qualls. They wouldn't.

QUOTE(redandwhite @ Jul 13, 2006 -> 10:39 PM) Why hate Ryan Freel? A well-informed source has repeatedly told me of his problems keeping clean. And this was well before his DUIs.

Kansas City with some pathetic defense in the 5th inning.

Are we really arguing who's more valuable, Gload or Mackowiak? Great job with your argument Milkman, I couldn't agree more.

QUOTE(redandwhite @ Jul 13, 2006 -> 10:21 PM) "I personally love it," Reds utility player Ryan Freel said. "I'm not knocking Kearns and Lopez, but we all knew that most of the problem has been with the bullpen." Of course he'd love the trade. He'll be playing every day now. He's truly one of my most despised players in all of baseball.

QUOTE(DrunkBomber @ Jul 13, 2006 -> 09:32 PM) Im not a big fan of letting Jose throw against New York. They always light him up. Either way I like the way the second half is mapped out. We pretty much control our own destiny. I think when we play the Tigers later in the year all of their younger pitchers are gonna struggle against our line up. Im also not that concerned about the Yankees this year. They are really banged up and wont be offensively what they have been the past few years. I think we can definately out slug them if we have to. Id like to see KW make some kind of move for either a CF, RP or a package deal for an ace like Schidtt Yeah, the Yankees sure kicked his ass last season when Contreras had 2 of our 3 wins against the Yankees all season. I think you're referring to the Red Sox, who had a ton of success vs Contreras when he was with the Yankees.

QUOTE(maggliopipe @ Jul 13, 2006 -> 09:29 PM) Well I guess this does open up regular playing time for Ryan Freel at shortstop. They can't possibly play Clayton over him, can they? Freel will get a lot more playing time in the outfield now. They're bringing in Clayton to sure up their defense.

ESPN is reporting that the Reds trade A. Kearns, F. Lopez, and R. Wagner to the Nationals for 5 players, including Royce Clayton, Majewski, and a few others. What in the hell are the Reds thinking? Lopez is one of the more productive SS in the National League.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jul 13, 2006 -> 03:50 PM) From what I have read, The DRays want 1 frontline starter and 1 midline starter for Crawford. However, he may not even be available anymore as they have recently dealt Gathright and Huff. I imagine if he is available, something to the tune of McCarthy, Fields, and Haeger may get it done, but they may even ask for someone like Cotts as well. I would deal BMac and prospects for Crawford in a heartbeat if not for the salary constraints we already have. Crawford will definitely be available after this season.