ZoomSlowik

Back to the original topic... His numbers were very impressive last year, especially since he wasn't a full-time player the whole year (only 140 games, and he platooned early in the year). If he keeps this up I think there is a solid chance he makes it, although he has an uphill climb because of his lack of name recognition. Hopefully he will get some love from the players and managers.

King and Marte have different roles on their teams. King is used more like a lefty specialist, Marte is the only setup guy. Just take a look at how long most of their outings were. King had about 62 innings in 86 appearances, and only got more than 3 outs 8 times. He never came close to averaging an appearance per inning with 4 different teams (while he was effective, I'm not counting the Cubs). Marte, on the other hand, averaged virtually an inning per appearance (almost 80 innings in 71 appearances the previous year) and went more than one inning 23 times. Part of that is depth of the respective teams' bullpens, but trust and ability are major factors. In his three seasons as a major piece of the bullpen, Marte's ERA's have been 2.83, 1.82, and 3.42. I think some have a short memory. He was damn good in 2003 and 2002. King is simply not the same pitcher as Marte. As someone said previously, take a look at their strikeout rates throughout their career. I've seen both of them extensively (damn Cardinals' games are always on at school), and I'd much rather have Marte, although I would in no way be aversed to having King on the roster. He is better than most lefty stiffs that teams trot out there, but he does not have the stuff or abilities that Marte does. I fully expect Marte to have a monster year now that we have a deeper pen. As for the main topic, I wouldn't care if any American player said he wasn't impressed. It's not their job to evaluate talent, and they simply can't see the players enough to really know them. Now if Ichiro or Ishii or someone like that said something along those lines it might be a little different, but I would still not be overly concerned.

I didn't play in the Soxtalk leagues last year, although I am a fantasy baseball veteran. I would like to join an active head-to-head live draft league, preferrably with non-noobs. I'd also be willing to play in a keeper league, that looks like fun. I joined one a couple of years ago but we never got to the next year (bastards, I had Pujols, Thome, Michael Young,and Abreu, plus a couple of decent pitchers whose names escape me). I would be willing to be commisioner of a league on Yahoo.

QUOTE(Palehosefan @ Jan 23, 2005 -> 11:17 PM) Thats VERY arguable in itself. Especially when it doesn't even matter how tough of a schedule a player plays against in college. How good of competition do you think Jimmy Smith, Larry Allen, Dwyane Carswell, Shannon Sharpe, Darren Sharper, Jason Taylor, Yancey Thigpen, Hollis Thomas, Charles Tillman, Adam Timmerman etc played against? There's always talent everywhere in college, whether its Jake Delhomme at Louisiana-Lafeyette, or Brett Favre from Southern Mississippi, or Jeff Garcia from San Jose State, Jon Kitna at Central Washington, JP Losman and Shaun King at Tulane, Steve McNair at Alcorn State, or Kurt Warner from Northern Iowa, there is alot of hidden talent to be had, even at the QB position. Thought I'd throw in some more major ones: Walter Payton- Jackson State Jerry Rice- Mississippi Valley State Terrell Owens- Chatanooga Steve McNair- Alcorn State

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jan 19, 2005 -> 03:27 AM) im going to smack you in school tommorow.... No way in hell is smith the next roethlesburger... Smith played at Utah les not forget yeah thats right whats the top ranked team they faced? pittsburgh pathetic. He going to be good but i dont think he will even be a starter right away on any team or if he is NFL starter material. And who exactly did Roethlesberger play at Miami of Ohio? They don't exactly play a stellar schedule either. Culpepper didn't exactly play against quality competition at South Florida either. I agree that he isn't going to have the immediate impact that Ben has had, but that is a poor argument to base the opinion on.

Let me first say that I am an NU fan going to school at Illinois (yes, I know the Illini are going to kill us next week, BFD), and because of this I have become very sick of hearing about the Illini. After 4 years of hearing about how great they are and no one believing me when I tell them they will not make the Final Four, I tend to look on them quite cynically. However, even I can admit they finally have a team that is good enough to win something of consequence. The only teams I would feel somewhat confident saying they could beat them are UNC, Duke, and Kansas, and those last two have to get 100% healthy first (there are other teams that can beat them on a good night, but I think these teams have better chances). I'm not going to say whether or not they will win the NCAA tournament, because at this time it is pointless. We don't know if they'll get the draw of death, or if someone major will get hurt. However, I do not think that the will go undefeated (and neither will Kansas, Duke, or any of the other undefeated teams). Eventually they will run into a cold or mediocre shooting night against the wrong team and slip up. They already did it a couple of times, but not against any teams of consequence (they shot well against Gonzaga and Wake, Cinci wasn't so hot but they aren't good enough to do anything about it). I'm really looking forward to Illinois at MSU. I'm not guaranteeing that the Spartans will win, I'm just saying that it looks like a very good matchup. The Spartans have similar athleticism, a better post scorer in Davis, and in my opinion more depth than the Illini (Torbert is a monster off the bench and they play several others that eat some minutes, the U of I bench doesn't make a major impact that often and only has 3 major contributors). Obviously, Illinois' three guards are monsters though, and if Davis gets in trouble the Illini have a big advantage.

The Bears have a high pick at the absolute wrong time for them. The top 5 is likely to be some combination of Rodgers, Rolle, Derrick Johnson,the 3 top RB's, Leinhart and/or Travis Johnson if they come out, none of whom really solve our problems unless we decide to move on at QB. I'm not sure about Ferguson, he's being hyped but I haven't seen much of him. He's better than the other tackles in the draft from everything I've heard though. I like Williams, but he isn't an elite speed guy and 4 is probably too high. Unless he runs something ridiculous at the combine I don't see him going that high. I'm definitely not sold on Edwards. I agree with you guys, he has the same MO as Terell: not very fast, makes plays by being physical with guys and outjumping them in the endzone. That's not likely to work for him in the pros, much like Terrell (Terrell is actually a little bigger). Here's my move if I'm Angelos: trade down and take Williams or Edwards and try to add offensive line depth with the extra picks. In free agency, make a major move to get any of the stud left tackles (IIRC, Walter Jones, Jonathan Ogden, and Orlando Pace are all potential FA) and sign a veteran backup QB. Those additions at least give Grossman (or whoever they plan on starting) a chance. Unfortunately it sounds like Angelos doesn't think adding a stud left tackle is a major priority (apparently he is blind). If Qasim Mitchell or Marc Colombo start at left tackle next year, it won't really matter who plays QB, the offense will struggle.

I think the Cards' rotation is getting a little too much credit from us so far. Mulder is a stud, but the rest are iffy. Carpenter had a solid year, but is coming off of surgery and was a notorious underachiever before that. Marquis was also decent last year but didn't show much before that, and Suppan is pretty mediocre. I certainly wouldn't put them in the top 5, and possibly just barely in the top 10.

Doh! Yeah, I did mean Ohio State. That's the only OSU in my book.

My favorite was the skit where black people received reparations for slavery. There was so much good stuff in that one. I'm Rich Biotch!!! This just in, crime has dropped to zero percent. What, did the Mexicans get money too?

I'm a huge fan of Pizzeria Uno and Due, my Dad used to work there so I'd be there all the time. I don't get there as often as I'd like anymore. Only go to the originals on Wabash though, the chains are crap. The owner bought these two places several years ago and put the name on the chains, but it isn't the quite the same. Uno's, Due's, and Su Casa (Mexican restaurant next door to Due's) are definitely owned by the same guy (used to be Ike Sewell, think it's Aaron something now), not sure about Lou Malnati's. My other favorite is Home Run Inn, I go there all the time before Sox games. Great greasy pizza.

I'm picking the Sox for two main reasons: the first is the bottom 3, the second is the nature of Brad Radke. I think you guys that are picking the Twins are vastly overrating him. His ERA for last season was his career low by a very good margin. Take a look at his ERA's from the last 4 seasons: 2001: 3.94 2002: 4.72 2003: 4.49 2004: 3.48 Granted he only made 21 starts in 2002, but this doesn't look like the dominating #2 that we are painting him as. He had one decent year, one Garland-like year, a mediocre year, and a fantastic year. I'm more likely to believe he is somewhere around those other numbers than last year's. Out of ten years in his career, he's had an ERA under 4 (4.25 actually) only 4 times, and his previous career best ERA was 3.75 7 years ago. In my book he is at best a draw with Mark Buehrle, and when you factor in the Cell I probably take Mark.

I'll forfeit my pick on the Champs' Sports and just pick the rest. Bowling Green Marshall UCLA Hawaii (bastards beat my Wildcats) Virginia Toledo Miami (OH) Oregon State Colorado OSU Boston College Navy Cal Northern Illinois Minnesota Arizona State Louisville Miami (FL) Georgia Tennessee FSU LSU Michigan Utah Auburn USC

Actually according to ESPN and MLB.com he's 35. Listed birthday is 10/11/69. Of course with Cuban pitchers, who the hell knows. He could be 70 and no one would have any idea.

I can't even name 3 more. Only one I can think of right now is Livan.

I was referring to Hudson and Mulder. I'd rather have either of them, although Zito's numbers are better than I thought (they talk an awful lot of s*** about him for someone that had a 3.30 ERA in 2003). You could really argue which has been better throughout their career, Mulder has a slightly better record, Zito has a better ERA. Both had 3 very good years that were virtually identical statistically and were a little disappointing this year, the only real differences are Mulder had a bad 27 start year in his first season(seems to be a major factor in the ERA difference) and missed a couple of games in 2003. Zito stayed pretty mediocre this whole year (IIRC he fell apart for a stretch in 2003 too and when he got out of it he had no run support), Mulder started out great then fizzled. As long as he isn't hurt, I fully expect Mulder to pitch better next year, Zito seems to have become more eratic for some reason. Besides, there's still a chance he'll trade Zito at the rate he's going, and I'm not so sure his odds of resigning are any higher than the others. I don't think he kept Zito as much as he found a trade for Mulder first.

So basically he's smart for trading his pitchers that are already good (one of which was still signed for this season and the next) for a bunch of young guys that might be good just so he could do it again in 4 years if the young guys show any sign of success? God forbid he keeps ONE of the two bonafide aces he has. Just a question, how much money did they get with Kendall? I have to imagine that they would have saved a good amount of money to potentially resign one of these guys if they hadn't acquired him.

I understand what he is doing, I just think it sucks when you have a team that can compete already. With that rotation they're always in it. Even after the Hudson trade, they had a team good enough to compete. But after the Mulder deal, I don't see them having that good a shot at the division this year. He's taking a chance on a ton of young pitchers en mass, which is really risky. I don't really see the point in trying to build a stellar rotation for the future when you were damn close already. Now you need at least two of the guys he traded for to turn into well above average starters (especially if Zito goes too, and I'm not counting Harden in that, although he needs to take the next step too), which I'm not so sure is going to happen. They didn't have to go into a rebuilding mode quite yet, but the Mulder deal sealed it. This reminds me of the breakup of the Bulls. I admit Beane has more to start with and is probably going about it better than Krause did, but it still doesn't make that much sense to me.

You're missing some things. First off, I'm more likely to think Shingo can repeat his performance since he was extremely successful in Japan for quite some time. That doesn't mean that he is going to repeat last year's performance, but I also doubt that he will suddenly have an ERA over 4. Marte is not going to be our closer, so it doesn't really matter if he has proven himself in that role. Also, I expect him to pitch better than last year for two reasons: his outstanding performance the previous two years, and he looked like he was overworked last year, which shouldn't happen this year. Vizcaino was horrendous in 2003, but take a look at his 2002 numbers. They are quite impressive. It's possible that he could be off, but when two of his last three years are solid, I tend to believe he is going to be decent. Calero has only 83 innings pitched the last two years (Shingo had 63 last year). If he is going to be a major part of their pen this year, he's going to have to pitch at least 50, probably more. Between the increased load and the more pressure packed role, I could see how he slips a little. Dotel was fairly bad as a closer last year. He was nowhere near his usual self. He was very hit or miss (especially in the AL) and blew 9 saves (Shingo blew 1, albiet in fewer chances). You could argue that a 4.00 ERA isn't that bad for a pen, but that is definitely not what you want from your closer. I know he has the stuff to close, but so do a lot of people. Forgive me if I'm not sold yet. I have my beliefs, you guys have yours. I honestly I'm not that interested in Oakland's pen considering that they are not in our division. This is my last post on the subject.

My bad, I was looking at last year's stats and haven't payed attention to their bullpen player movements. That makes me even less likely to favor them because those were two of the veterans on the staff that have shown they could do it for more than one year, basically leaving them with Ricon and Dotel from that category. If they are going to depend on the young guys to take major setup roles, I am skeptical. They do have some power arms so I could be proven wrong, but I'd definitely rather have our back 3 if Calero or Cruz (or Street, or Garcia) is one of their key setup guys. Plus, I would think there is a chance that Cruz gets a shot at starting given their current rotation situation (I might be wrong on that).

I disagree with your assesment that Calero and Cruz have proven themselves as solid pitchers. Calero has yet to pitch 50 innings in a season, so I have a hard time saying I'd be willing to depend on him (although he has done well so far), and Cruz has shown me a lot more inefficiency than efficiency (good year this past year though). Plus Dotel proving himself as a closer is a major issue. They've got good young arms and a few proven veterans, but as I said, as of right now I don't believe their backend guys will consistently be able to hold one or two run leads to start the 8th.

I'm not so sure. Their pen is definitely deeper, but I'd rather have Shingo, Marte, and Viscaino than Dotel, Bradford, and Mecir. However guys like Durchesurer and Rincon are better than guys like Hermansen and Politte. I think their overall bullpen ERA will be better because our middle relief and long relief aren't as strong, plus they play in a solid pitcher's park while we play in Coor's Field East. However, I have more faith in our back 3 than theirs at this point. If Dotel pitches in the closer's role like he used to in setup however, that's another story. They need a monster stopper back there for me to put them among the elite, someone like Gagne, K-Rod, Mota, or Rivera. I don't see that at this point.

The problem is half of those guys haven't proven anything yet, and most of the others didn't do so hot last year.

I certainly wouldn't call them "ridiculously good." They only had two guys in their pen (at least two that pitched significant innings) with ERA's under 3.5, neither of which were their closer or main setup guy. They do have some depth (making them deadly for the 6th and 7th), but their backend is nowhere near as strong as those of other teams. It's possible guys like Garcia, Street, or Cruz can come in and be solid, but they still wouldn't have dependable guys in the 8th and 9th.

I personally think Billy Beane is losing his mind. You don't trade two pitchers of that caliber in the same offseason unless you get at least one solid major league level contributor, especially when your offense and bullpen are less than spectacular. Plus if I had to trade two of those big three, Zito would definitely be the last one I keep (unless Mulder has a serious or degenerative injury that I don't know about and Beane does). They may have some major young talent there now, but there is no telling if any of them pan out in the long run, including Harden. I hate to agree with Hawk (I know that is a dangerous precendent), but we gotta wait and see how good Beane is as a GM now that his big arms are gone. He got some major gifts from scouting and minor league development in the Big Three, Chavez, Giambi, and Tejada, which had little to do with his abilities as a GM.