Kalapse

QUOTE(greg775 @ Nov 20, 2007 -> 12:07 AM) but this trade is yet another that SUCKS. Why exactly?

After doing a pretty in depth internet search on Orlando Cabrera I'm having a hard time finding anyone who doesn't like him as a player, especially anyone who watched him in Anaheim. From what I've gathered his stats take a hit because he gives up so many ABs in the 2 hole. He also puts himself in unfavorable counts since he's willing to take pitches for a baserunner. If it's at all possible he seems to be an even better defender than his reputation lets on, he's very smart in the field, 100% focused at all times (the anti-Uribe) and can make all the tough plays. He's well liked in the clubhouse, is good to the media and speaks very good english. I also heard an interview Boers and Bernstein did today with Kevin Baxster, he covers the Angels for the LA times, he like everyone else had absolutely nothing bad to say about Cabrera and described him as an "average to young 33 years old" so he isn't exactly slowing down. I never paid a lot of attention to Orlando Cabrera but after reading the Angels/Red Sox fans' take on him I'm really starting to like this deal even more than before. Cabrera is a real baseball player unlike a lot of the guys we've been forced to watch on the South Side over the years.

I just got a new PSE Compound bow so I'll be out hunting Turkey's within the next week or so. Should be fun.

According to some guy at the Rocky Mountain News the Astros are close to landing Kazuo Matsui.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 09:13 PM) IIRC, He would have been starting every game in CF if it weren't for his injury. That said Matthews really tailed off in the 2nd half of the season. Ok then $10M a year for a guy who hit .211/.296/.392/.688 in the 2nd half of the season (.323 OBP overall) and was named in connection with an illegal distributer of Human Growth Hormone in Florida.

QUOTE(Buehrle>Wood @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 09:06 PM) Wouldn't say that. Nothing quite like paying $10M a year for a guy who isn't even good enough to make your playoff roster.

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 09:06 PM) So terms have been agreed on? Torii is a southsider? I'm confused... It's probably just bulls***. I wouldn't get my hopes up if I were you.

QUOTE(EvilJester99 @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 08:05 PM) Seen this on WSI on the Torii thread...TIFWIW. I don't know the posters but there are 2 claiming different stations are claiming its a done deal with the Sox and Torii..... "I got a text from a friend in TX and he says that 820AM in TX is reporting that no meeting is taking place tonight between Hunter and the Rangers because it looks like he is going to take the Sox offer.. I'm not to sure if this is true or not.. Has it been reported in Chicago" Here is the other one... "Friend of mine in St. Paul called me and said Sludge and Lake on KFAN in Minn, are reporting that the WS and Hunter have agreed in principle on a deal." I hope this is true. Torii Hunter has gotten my full endorsement.

QUOTE(PAUL KONERKO 14 @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 02:49 PM) I'm not a huge defense stat-head, can you show me the stats that suggest this? David Eckstein has the arm of a 10 year old girl and plays a position where you need to be able to make strong throws from deep in the hole in order to be effective. He's a glorified secondbaseman.

QUOTE(PAUL KONERKO 14 @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 02:44 PM) Cabrera isn't even a ton better than Eckstein so it doesn't matter much. There's a MAJOR difference defensively. Like night and day.

QUOTE(WilliamTell @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 02:42 PM) I don't have time to read the whole thread, but does this mean either A. we're going to trade Cabrera or B. Uribe is going to play 2nd base? KW said he'll look to trade Uribe.

QUOTE(WhiteSoxfan1986 @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 01:54 PM) Uribe's career OPS is only two points lower than OCab's.................. And over the past 2 seasons it's only a 52 point difference as well as a difference of 45 SB and a defensive upgrade.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 01:38 PM) 2005 and 2006 he was a very good 2 hitter. He dropped off last season. You said we haven't seen a good 2 hitter for years. Orlando isn't going to give us anything better than Iguchi did in '05 and '06. Cabrera does do one thing much better than Iguchi and that's making contact and avoiding strikeouts. He strikes out about half as much as Iguchi which is one thing you really like from a 2 hole hitter.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 01:28 PM) I guess time will tell. And the sox do have the Ozzie relationship with Cabrera to encourage him to sign a deal ala Freddy Garcia. It would definitely depend on how sure Ozzie was to Miguel extending. Who is Miguel's agent? Arn Tellem AKA the agent of Frank Thomas Ben Wallace and Tracy McGrady (The Reinsdorf connection is strong). Tellem is an absolute beast, he tends to get top dollar for his clients (Jason Giambi, Hideki Matsui, Jermaine O'neal, Antawn Jamison.)

QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 01:12 PM) How can you not want Miguel Cabrera? The only person who should not want him is the owner of an all-you-can-eat buffet. He's an all or nothing base clogger. DUH The Sox don't need anymore of those, they need more speedy/bunty/bearded/grindy guys.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 01:07 PM) Funny that you bring that up. I just saw a quote from Kenny, something like... wait, here it is... "We're not done yet. We're still trying to land a big fish," Williams said. Pun intended? That is probably the single greatest Kenny Williams quote I have ever read. THAT is how you use a pun.

QUOTE(SoxFan562004 @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 12:57 PM) http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/garlajo01.shtml I know some people don't love stats, but FWIW, he has a Career ERA+ 106, 100 being the average, and I believe that stat is adjusted for ballparks and other factors. So Sabermetric followers would put him at slightly above average over his career. And on the flipside, Cabrera batting wise OPB+ is 85 career, 95 last year, which is below average. That does not take into account fielding. We'll see, it's November 19, if this is the only move KW makes I won't be thrilled, but he has time. Sorry, I forgot my qualifier (I tend to do that) he's a "slightly above average" starting pitcher. That strong September seriously boosted Garland's ERA+ too, the last time I checked his stats (probably late August) his career ERA+ was around 103. I like Jon, he's an incredibly valuable starter who's about to make $14-$16M a year and has a seemingly unrepairable knot in his shoulder. He will be missed.

QUOTE(longshot7 @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 12:42 PM) Fernandez, McDowell, David Wells, Colon, Bradford, Foulke, Howry----- need I go on? Fernandez and McDowell had a grand total of 2.5 good seasons combined after leaving the Sox and both made a whole lot of money while doing being bad, especially Fernandez who was an absolute disaster for the final 3 years and $21M of his contract with the Marlins. Wells had to go and they were much better off not re-signing Colon (though that was not from a lack of trying.) The trend with 3 of those starters was big, big money, 1 or 2 good years immediately following their departure from the Sox then they break down and become useless by year 2 or 3.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 12:41 PM) I object to Garland as being mediocre. I wish I could find a link, but it is not like half the pitchers have winning and half have losing records. IIRC less than 33% of mlb starting pitchers have career winning records. I wish I could find the number. He's a league average starting pitcher. That makes him better than "mediocre" but at the same time nothing special.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 12:33 PM) I could be wrong about Cabrera netting two draft picks. Apparenty a poster at SSS said shortstops are grouped with third-basemen and second-basemen -- is this true? In any case I still think the chances are pretty good that -- barring Cabrera falling off the table next season -- Cabrera will be type-A. They are all grouped together and even with that he was still easily ranked as a Type A this year finishing with a 79.464 rating from the ESB, the highest Type B was a 72.571. If he puts up numbers next year that are comparable to '06 then he's pretty much a lock to be a Type A.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 12:17 PM) Egbert isn't listed on the White Sox 40 man (on the Sox site) and they are pretty good about updating. I do not recall an official announcement, just a "they will add him" from maybe Phil Rogers or something like that. Yeah you're right. I remember that blurb from the end of the season too, I just assumed they had done it already. Well I assume we'll find out fairly soon if these guys will be around next year.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 12:13 PM) Isn't Cabrera likely to be a Type B free agent? No, he WILL be a type A if he's even close to as productive next year as he was in '06.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 12:03 PM) We were discussing that in the other thread - I don't think they have to yet. I think they are deciding, and honestly, I think it depends partially on what happens with Uribe. If they were intent on keeping Jason B. then they would have just added him to the 40 when they added Egbert. There's like 5 guys who could be kicked off right now to make room for him but they've waited this long, to the point where I'm not even sure he's under the club's control anymore.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 12:07 PM) Those two picks, if received, would both be in the Top 100, correct? Yes and one could potentially be between #15 and #30.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 11:34 AM) I doubt it. But if the move stands alone, and if there isn't some cash coming back or something else, and if its not part of some multi-lateral move... then it looks like a disappointing trade. I'm now very curious to see what might come next. The Trib is reporting that the Sox will receive cash in the deal. So I'm thinking something like $3M could be coming back the Sox's way.