Kalapse

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 09:02 PM) 90 percent of Sox fans, congrats on not being dumb if your in the 10 percent that realizes this team's sole problem is the terrible starting pitching. Yep, seems like you have a good amount of evidence to back this claim up too. From what I've seen from people who I consider Sox fans, they're worried about the starting pitching more than anything.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 08:55 PM) Well what do you suggest? Leave the rotation as it is, have it be bad, AND expose the underbelly of the pen...or get rid of our worst starter Vasquez, put B-Mac in the rotation, and see how using Thornton, Cotts, Jenks, and Riske in the big spots works. Something with the pitching rotation has to change, or we WILL NOT make the playoffs. Javy is a inconsistent loser and he's shown it his whole career. He has to go, at least with Freddy he's been successful in the past, Javy has always been a .500 pitcher and always will be. And that B-Mac guy is pretty good when he starts. Plus, who's to say we can't get a decent arm for the pen for Vasquez? I think we can. You suggested trading him for nothing, that's what I'm shooting down here. If you're going to trade Vazquez it has to be for a solid bullpen arm who can pitch the 8th inning for you with his right arm. QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 09:00 PM) Losing B-Mac from the pen isn't nearly the disaster people think. He's been decent, but an ERA in the 4's all year out of the pen isn't irreplaceable. The big difference in this pen from last year is still losing the amazing production we got from Cliff and from Dustin for the first 3 months plus, and those 2 things can't be replaced. Well, I personally think he's been pitching much better than his ERA suggests over the past month but whatever. I guess you'd be happy with Riske or Tracey pitching the 8th every night.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 08:55 PM) Every trade scenario people suggest, it always includes things about how bad our bullpen is, etc. Most trade scenerios have us upgrading the pen with the addition of a middle reliever while at the same time upgrading the rotation with the addition of McCarthy. If you remove BMac from the bullpen it immediately goes to s***, so if you're not replacing Brandon with someone atleast equal to him then you can't put him the the rotation. QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 08:56 PM) Everybody thinks we need bullpen help and a CF, it's a fun myth, just like Ozzieball was a fun myth last year. This team's sole problem is starting pitching, and is why I'm so insistent on Javy having to go, since he is the weakest link with a long history of being a mental midget. Who exactly is everybody? Maybe I'm just missing something here but I havn't seen anything of late ripping the pen's performance outside of Clifford.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 08:52 PM) I can't believe the amount of s*** our bullpen is giving now. For the last month or so, they've been excellent. I wish Ozzie had as much confidence in them as he does the starters. Who's complaining about the bullpen? from what I've seen people have been praising the pen of late and rightfully so.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 08:51 PM) Our pen isn't 1/10th the issue our rotation is right now. How many leads has our pen had to blow? Not many, since the starters (especially Javy) get f***ed up. Javy has to go, and I don't GAF if it hurts the bullpen. Maybe if our starters would go 6 or 7 and only give up 2 or 3 runs, the pen wouldn't be exposed so much. The pen would be a major issue if your "scenerio" actually took place.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 08:48 PM) If Vasquez is not traded, we will not make the playoffs, period. You can't have a guy with no balls pitching 1/5 of the games and expect to go anywhere. He's a waste and must go, even if we get nothing back. B-Mac to the rotation, Vasquez to somewhere other than here. And then we have no righty setup man unless you trust Riske to fill the role which he's failed at in recent years your pen will go to s***.

I'd rather he spent his time and energy on overcomming his fear of seeing Mackowiak on the bench everyday or maybe he just enjoys the company of Brian Anderson when all his other starters are out playing defense.

QUOTE(Contreras @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 07:24 PM) Not too odd. 2003 was the year that his back took a dump. He's been a lesser man since then (but still awfully damned good...And scary as an NL-to-AL transplant). He does look to be on his way out, though. Check out his walk rate this year. Yeah, his slugging percentage is still high this year but his OBP has dropped big time, I guess he's completely lost all plate discipline. Kinda sad if you ask me.

QUOTE(Contreras @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 07:00 PM) Ok, fair enough. The point remains the same: Much, much better comparison. Though there is one odd thing about Vlad's transition, check out his OPSs since 2000: '00: MON: 1.074 '01: MON: .943 (-131) '02: MON: 1.010 (+67) '03: MON: 1.012 (+2) '04: ANA: .989 (-23) '05: LAA: .959 (-30) '06: LAA: .882 (-77)

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 06:55 PM) You didn't ace logic class, did you? Please refrain from using personal attacks.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 06:48 PM) I wasn't arguing that he was "back." I was arguing that he isn't throwing strictly 88 anymore. But he is strickly throwing 86-88. All that really matters is where you're sitting at and he's currently sitting at about 86, he's able to pop it at about 90-91 if he reaches back. That whole 94 MPH thing has happened so infrequently this year that I don't think you can count it as anything other than an abberation

QUOTE(Contreras @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 02:47 PM) "Hi." Jim Thome kicked ass in the AL for 9 years then switched over the the NL for 2 seasons, I'd hardly compare him to Abreu whom has spent his entire career in the NL.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 06:41 PM) That's a brilliant idea. Trade for the guy with the mental issues and bring him to New York. That's been tried already, pal. BTW, Freddy was throwing 94 on Sunday. And we know how those Mets are afraid to trade for "aging" arms since they stay away from those guys (Pedro, El Duque, Glavine, Trachsel). He threw 94 a few times later in the game after giving up 6 runs on 86 MPH fastballs for a majority of Sunday. I'm not sure which would be worse, if he actually has the ability to throw 94 but chooses not to or if all of a sudden at the end of some random game he throws 94 a few times but still can't throw anything but still sits at 86. Also, this wasn't the first time that he's popped it in the 90's this year, it seems just at random times throughout the season he's decided to bring the good heat but at all other times he's sitting in the mid to upper 80's. I really don't think Sunday was a sign of anything.

QUOTE(DePloderer @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 02:14 PM) and I don't love you. Ask and you shall receive.

QUOTE(Fourofakind @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 01:25 PM) Are you sure he was peralized and not paralyzed???? Who really cares?

It sucks.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 01:26 PM) Knowing him, do you honestly think he would??? I think there is a fair amount of history that shows KW sticks his nose in everything and anything, especially when a all-star or name player becomes available via trade: Tejada, Burnett, Randy Johnson, Freddy Garcia, Javy Vazquez, etc., etc. All of Rob Mackowiak, Alex Cintron and Javy Vazquez' names were mentioned by him in the past and became "his guys". If KW really wants someone he tends to make it very appearant, I don't think I've ever even heard him mention Carl Crawford.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 01:21 PM) You really want them to do this deal? It would make the Tigers' lineup much better. That is nothing to give up for Abreu. Abreu is behind only Mauer, Hafner, and Pujols in OBP. Those guys also have better than .310 batting averages. Abreu has 61 RBI which is not too shabby either. You put him in a better lineup and his average will definitely climb because he will see better pitches. He will also get more pitches to hit out of the park as well. Abreu is a very good player in the prime of his career. You are drasticllay underestimating him. How exactly is the Tigers' order better than the Phillies? I wouldn't underestimate Rollins, Burrell, Howard, Utley and Rowand. Howard is far and away the best hitter between the two teams and Utley is right up there as well, I'd say that's some damn good protection.

QUOTE(S720 @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 08:04 AM) Does that mean you CURRENTLY hate Garcia, Vazquez and Buehrle? They have been god-damned terrible recently! Buehrle is 0-3 with a 13.81 ERA in three July starts! "hated on" not "hated" it's all about the terminology. I'm not happy with the way Buehlre has pitched over his last few starts, I've been disappointed in Vazquez all season and have stated this numerous times and Garcia; if he's on this team in August I'm going to be upset.

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 11:48 AM) I think I remember reading that his nephew asked him to hit a home run....he hit two. His nephew was peralized and I believe it was either day of or a day or two after he became peralized that he asked him uncle to hit a HR for him but Jim messed up and hit 2 instead. He also put all his neices and nephews through college

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 03:51 AM) Yes correct me if im wrong but hasnt wite said some ridiculous stuff in the past as well. Ill give him enough credit that he isnt as ridiculous as Jeckle but I remember some pretty ??? posts where Wite was serious.

QUOTE(qwerty @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 02:55 AM) This is not jeckle we are talking about... this is wite. Difference being?

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 01:39 AM) There's a difference between constructive criticism and ridiculous, knee-jerk overreaction to a guy who's struggling at a particular time. Unfortunately, we get WAY more of the latter around here. 2.5 months of suckage sure is a long period of time for people to overreact to.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 01:07 AM) I think the specific people who might have some concern are the people who were saying Garland would never return to form, that the first part of 05 was a total fluke, and that he was never going to be worth the contract we signed him to. There were plenty of those people. Now if that's what he's talking about then yeah, I can maybe understand. Though he's not going to be matching last years numbers again this year so they're going to have to wait atleast until '07 for Garland to prove last year was not a fluke. And just for the record I'm not one of those people who called last year a fluke.

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 12:58 AM) Rock, you should be aware of how this board works by now. Yeah, people rightfully criticise players when they're sucking then when they finally turn it around (hopefully) they let up and start to rightfully praise them. It's not like people call for his head then when he stops sucking act like they didn't. Yeah, I ripped Garland at the beginning as did a bunch of other people, now he's pitching well and I'm glad, he deserves praise for that which his getting from me. I'm not just going to hate on the guy for when he's going good because I hated on him when he was sucking.