elrockinMT

These types of stories are feel good for sure. We will see this all winter long and through spring training. But, I think in a way they are positive and insightful at the same time. Beckham is a real great prospect with loads of talent. Play mind games and when you struggle all it does is end in failure. That's what happened last season IMO. If Dunn is losing weight and kicking himself in the butt, etc, etc, and Rios is working hard it is a positive sign. But, yes we have to wait and see with all the non-performers the proof will be in the pudding.

QUOTE (beck72 @ Dec 24, 2011 -> 04:03 PM) Gavin will be a very valuable trading chip. Esp to the AL teams that need a SP. The only AL team that improved their rotation so far via trade or Free agency was the Angels with the CJ Wilson signing. The Red Sox, Yanks, Rangers need a SP. Not to mention how the NL teams that didn't improve their rotations must compete with those teams that did-the Marlins, Nats, Cincy. The sox are sitting nicely with Gavin as two cost controlled years of him should be worth a few very good prospects. The Sox are all in for 2012. Gavin and Danks and Peavy and Humber and and a fight for #5. Reed and Crain and Thornton and Frasor in the pen. CQ in right. Mark my words. We are counting on a turnaround from some non-performers

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 08:43 PM) People think of the word rebuilding as tearing the entire team apart and building through the minor league system. People think of retooling as tearing the entire team apart and building through the major league team. Most view the latter as inefficient. The problem with that scenario is that people assume that the two concepts are mutually exclusive. They are not. You can rebuild and retool at the same exact time. The White Sox did it in the 2007 season when they signed Pierzynski, Buehrle, and Dye to contract extensions. Those moves were much crazier than this move. I love this move. It's a very good value for a very solid pitcher who is just entering his prime. It's very likely that he will live up to the value of this contract. Beyond that, this move doesn't stop them from continuing a rebuild. As was mentioned elsewhere, it simply alludes to the idea that the Sox will trade other pieces as well and that Williams will not be in a hurry to do so. I have no problem with that either. It is frustrating as a fan because we have no idea what to expect at this point. Instead of being frustrated, I'm just going to sit back and enjoy the ride at this point because I have no idea what the hell they are going to do. I have subscribed to this theory myself. In fact signing Quentin would be in the so called rebuilding concept IMO. Keep your good players while looking at some FA signings and potential minor league stars.

QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 09:52 PM) So an outfield of Viciedo in right, Cespedes in center, and DeAza in left? Sounds very interesting... : No I think Quentin is in right

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 09:54 PM) How can we bid on him we cannot spend $1.00 with only 50 cents as KW would say! Good point

This one I wouldn't think is going to happen. We can use the $8M on our own players salaries

Let's hope 2012 is a better year

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 10:35 PM) Johan never had as many "Days off" with the change as Danks has, had a different arm slot that made the change basically a different pitch, and had a better fastball to boot. Not arguing, but in todays world of pitchers Danks ain't bad

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 11:28 PM) It's his pitching style. His only real dominating pitch is that changeup, and he becomes a fairly pedestrian pitcher on days when he doesn't have his good change. It's as frustrating of a thing as I've seen. Either more reliability on that changeup or a 2nd pitch to get lefties out in particular and he'd become a wrecking ball. Kind of sounds like Johan Santana a bit. Got to have that great changeup and at least a couple other good pitches. What does Danks have? A fair fastball and curve maybe.

Let's wait and see if it's true, but I kind of like the idea.

CQ has had four pretty good years, two of which were real good IMO, for the Sox. Even when injured he never finished with less than 21 homers.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 08:46 PM) The problem is...Carlos Quentin has not been a good performer for the White Sox, at least not well beyond the level of his current salary. That's why it's really hard to get a good return for Carlos Quentin...you're lucky if he gives you 1/2 of a baseball season with decent performance. He IS one of the non-performers who are dragging the team down...if he could have stayed healthy, then he'd be a vastly more valuable piece than he currently is. But, he can't be blamed for the injuries. he is injured because he performs all out. He gives you max performance. He doesn't sluff off. PK was injured also. But, PK didn't and doesn't sluff off. Now to say the injury history is a negative thing might be applied to say Jake Peavy. I think he is a real competitor, but might never be able to rebound from his injuries and pitch like a $22M pitcher should. I have a hard time following the salary thing with CQ. Look at some with 20 homers a year signing for more than what CQ is making. I lay this squarely at the doorstep of KW. He won't admit it but if his decisions have come back to haunt the Sox and it is now ALL about the money and no longer anout WINNING and COMPETING admit it and let's be satisfied with several years of sub par results. I think we are better off competing with who we have for the most part. But, I guess you have to pay the fiddler at some point.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 08:42 PM) The Cuban player is under control for six years. Q is for two. Hopefully we see production from Vicideo. But, using the logic of some then Dayan could get us more in return because he is under control longer. CQ has the major league history. Viciedo doesn't. I am not calling for his being traded mind you just saying that things can be looked at different ways. I want to win and I think winning means keeping someone like CQ.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 08:30 PM) You said, and I quote "We'd be better off giving away someone like Rios". Alexis Rios has nearly $40 million remaining on his contract. After putting up one of the worst seasons in MLB history, no one in their right mind would take on that kind of money. Therefore, Giving away Alexis Rios also involves coming up with a check for $35 million or more. Spending $35 million to "Cut your losses" is not "Cutting your losses" in any way, shape, or form. Replaying 2009 does not change this simple fact. You have spent the entire offseason pretending that somehow it should be easy to get rid of Alexis Rios, and any time someone asks you why the White Sox should spend $40 million just to remove him from the roster, you shrink away and never answer it, here included. If the White Sox traded away Danks, Konerko, Quentin, Ramirez, and Thornton, and took back zero salary in the process, they could probably clear up enough money to pay Alex Rios to go away. Do you think doing so will make the White Sox a better team right now? If not, please give me your plan to clear $40 million in payroll obligations for the next season. Either that, or STOP PRETENDING THAT RIOS CAN BE MOVED. My point is more along the lines that you don't give away players that produce for next to nothing. Granted players might get traded - CQ included - and we keep non-performers who continue to drag us down. Now keep those good performers - like CQ - and somehow the non-performers show up and maybe we are in the mix competively. I think there is more than one way to look at things. Sometimes you have to play the devils advocate and not go along with group think. If you consider returns in trades maybe Viciedo should be traded? It seems people think he has value right? Plus some of the ideas about signing someone like the next Cuban star, who may ask for $25M plus as a signing bonus makes no more sense then dumping CQ because he is in line to make some money. I am not changing my opinion even though I know the trade of any player is a possibility. I think I am more upset with the Rios situation then even the Dunn fiasco. Really who could have predicted the absolute failure of Dunn? Rios had an iffy history and I just don't think that was well thought out.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 08:15 PM) HOW DO YOU PLAN TO DO THIS?!?!?!?! SAYING IT OVER AND OVER DOES NOT MAKE $40 MILLION APPEAR. Where does Quentin's salary equal that kind of money? CQ's production has also been better than Rios. I think we can still compete but you do it with good productive players. Sometimes you cut your loses instead of making it worse. Maybe there is a KW out there on someone elses team looking to make a splash? Granted that's unlikely but I would have thought assuming the inflated salary of a player hitting .199 in 2009 might have been unlikely too. Is this the only organization that does crazy stuff?

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 07:48 PM) I guess I don't remember the rumors or at least anyone taking them very seriously. All I remember was the cost for Viceido was going to be significant and we had never spent anything near the rumored costs on an amateur international free agent. The move was really unprecented for us, so I'm shocked that many people saw it coming, but I easily could be wrong here. Dayan Viciedo cost us a lot of money for someone who hit one homer in 2011 and drove in 5 runs. He has been given lots of lip service. Hopefully he can produce over 162 games at the major league level.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 07:29 PM) Because we have 5 guys in the OF who deserve playing time as it is, and he's the closest to FA. He absolutely needs to be moved for whatever the best return possible is. If that's given away with someone taking on his salary, fine. Carlos Quentin is also the one who deserves to play the most of the five. We would be better off "giving away" someone like Rios. Even if we did sign some new Cuban phenom chances are he might be in the minors just like Viciedo was.

When speculators attempt to embellish their speculation with a three-way trade proposal I then believe they are full of manure. I am sure there have been talks with a lot of teams. We just traded santos to Toronto. Last year we made a trade and we signed Rios. We have taken it in the shorts with the Jays as a trading partner and now speculation is we are giving up two more of our better players to Toronto.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 20, 2011 -> 01:40 PM) Just what we need, another OF. Hopefully that's all this is is a rumor

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 17, 2011 -> 02:31 AM) Do people really think Santiago is a starter candidate? I don't think I see Santiago as a starter. That out pitch he developed might make him effective for a couple innings or so. Problem is every minor league pitching prospect for the Sox is evaluated as a relief candidate. What's up with that?

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 20, 2011 -> 04:05 AM) If the Sox don't make a move in the next week or so, I'm going to start getting nervous. We have three pieces that should be moved before the start of the season and a couple more that might make sense to move now as well. Still having all these players by the start of January will eat away some of our leverage as teams will know we need to move salary. If trades are to be made we have plenty of time. Those that need the pieces and don't have them around ST will be the ones in a pickle not us. Plus we do not have to move our people.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 20, 2011 -> 02:56 AM) That was my point He's a shill for the organization. We do agree on something then

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 19, 2011 -> 04:55 PM) I'm sure his opinion is exactly what the Sox organization/JR thinks. And tells him what to say maybe

I wonder what the Ole Hawkeroo's impression is of all this stuff?

Winning solves a lot of problems