AddisonStSox

QUOTE(IlliniKrush @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 02:40 PM) Well put my friend. Also nice posts by Addy. None of us really know exactly what's going on behind closed doors with recruiting; we just see the results. That's why i get so sick of the 'weber can't recruit' talk because we don't know what he is/isn't doing to lure them here, or for that matter why exactly recruits go elsewhere at the last minute. I wish i had an answer but i don't. I just hope something changes a little bit, as changing something seems to be a decent idea right now. I also have the hope that you have. I see things turning around soon. I think the fact that he stopped the season from being an absolute train wreck with all the injuries and other problems will help a ton. Now as far as getting help from Zook, I can't help but think that they have talked here or there about recruiting philosophies. Zook clearly knows a thing or two since he's recruited to a pretty much dormant football program. However, at the end of the day Weber is going to do things his way/the way that he feels will work best. What that way is i'm not quite sure, I just hope it works...or he thinks about changing a thing or two to maybe improve his chances with some of these guys in the future. Recruiting is such an inexact science and there are just so many variables. I often wonder if i was a recruit, what would i look for? What would make my decision? I wish some former coach would come out with a book on everything and everything about recruiting, as I think it would be fascinating (and if this book is already out than i'm not aware of it). It's something I think all of us wish we knew more about. It's not as black and white as signing guys to X money for X years or trading guys with X stats for other guys with X stats. Very nice post, Krush. I always enjoy the Illini discussions the most when you, doc, Corn, and Steve are involved. At this point of the discussion, I would like to add this first-hand information I have heard with my own ears. Speaking with Illini-commit Bill Cole's sister (already a student here at the U of I), I learned that Bruce really does take strides to endear himself with his recruits. She overheard a discussion on basically this same topic (Weber's recruiting woes) and felt compelled to add that Bruce text-messages her kid brother almost every day, calls the house to see how both school and the family and going, and keeps an open line of communication for any questions the recruit may have along the way. Personally, I think Weber is a real cerebral guy--perhaps more cerebral than, say, Bill Self. From all accounts, Weber does not try to be these kids' best friend. He attempts to blend "friend" along with "coach/mentor." I don't think that approach gets you as far as it used to--say when guy's like Lute, Bob Knight, and company were in on all the nation's top recruits. I think today's recruit is looking for something else. What, exactly? I do not know. But, I am confident Weber can adapt. He sounds like a guy intent on keeping a clean program, and I would guess that may have hurt him in the past--but, that karma-train is bound to come around at some point. Hell, even in some "bad" years, he is bringing in Big Ten talent, and that much is undeniable. I am looking forward to this class and I think guys like Tisdale and, especially, Q. Watkins are going to be very nice, very competitive Big Ten players--don't forget about McCamey. Keep up the good discussion here--this is a rarity!!!

QUOTE(thedoctor @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 01:02 PM) ...but at the end of the day the result is that weber couldn't close. That, of course, is the devil's advocate position on it. He couldn't close. That is a factually correct statement. No doubt. But, I do believe there were some extracurriculars and some extenuating circumstances involved in all three of the aforementioned cases. However, my point remains. Had he locked up Gordon, all of the "Weber can't recruit" talk (which does appear to be accurate at this point in time) would have disappeared. I just can't believe a coach so good with the X's and O's can't pull in at least one or two five-stars, say, every other year. He's going to have to really refine his skills in the recruitment department--or align himself with some recruiting "wiz-kid"--or he will be on the hot seat despite his Wins and Losses.

QUOTE(103 mph screwball @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 12:37 PM) It's not important if any of us feel that Rowand is a key to White Sox success. If the Sox players and management feel that way, I think that is hugely important. Attitude, team chemistry, juju, superstition, or whatever you want to call it can focus the team's talent. If it fires up the team and Rowand for another run in 2007, go for it. I think it is more likely that an extremely happy Rowand improves his 2nd half 2006 numbers than BA figuring it out in as Ozzie's reluctant choice. I also believe that Rowand meant more than a cheerleader to the 2005 championship. Well done. Is that objective enough for everyone? That post marks the end for me.

Make some baseball-minded posts regarding the reacquisition of a former White Sox center-fielder and sure enough, the always witty Rowand cheerleader posts come out in full force. This place is insufferable at times.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 12:20 PM) The biggest reason for holding onto Mackowiak, and it's one that's getting glossed over here I think by people who do want Rowand back and can't find a roster spot for him or just want another OF somewhere; Mackowiak remains our best backup option right now at 3rd base. He's a better option there than either Ozuna or Cintron, and Fields should really stay in the minors for at least a good chunk of the season. So, if Mr. Crede's back continues to cause Problems...Mack becomes our best option there. As long as someone prevents him from ever playing CF again. Small potatoes in my opinion. Both the defensive and offensive drop-off from a Crede injury would be significant if replaced by any one of Mackowiak, Ozuna, or Cintron. Both Ozuna and Cintron play respectable defense at the hot corner. I'm not going to hand them a gold glove any time soon, but, if Joe needs someone to spell him for one to three days, it is going to be one of those two...if he'll miss more than four or five days, Fields will be up. That's that.

Sampson has proven he can recruit, no one is arguing that. Whether or not he does it fairly is still in the air; however, that isn't something I lose sleep over. What is funny about all this to me is if the Gordon family didn't f*** over Weber, the "Weber can't recruit" talks would have been put to rest. It's interesting, that's all.

Famine Pestilence

QUOTE(quickman @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 11:09 AM) Hey Ian, as you and I have chatted before, andersen sucks, sweeney sucks, logan sucks broadway throws light. I cannot wait to get Rowand back, even though he is average. he loves the sox and they love him for his dedication, also he will sign here for less. Cards are adding up. All these guys would be fine if the sox dismantle the team and cut payroll to Royals caliber, but thats not what is happening. They will fill certain holes as they lose key guys. two holes next year to be filled will be Fields for Crede and Danks for buehrle. There is pretty much nothing else down there. Once again, you and I are exactly on the same page per usual, TQ. Rowand is a proven commodity. If you want to call him an average proven commodity, I am fine with that. But, that is more than can be said for Brian Anderson. Folks, Podsednik will be this team's left-fielder. That's it. He is still under contract, Ozzie wants speed at the top of the order, and he can be an asset when healthy (see pre-All-Star break 2005). Erstad will spell Podsednik at times in left field and he may also spell Anderson in center. If Rowand is acquired, he will challenge Anderson for playing time in center field, he will play gold glove caliber defense, and as much as some of you hate to admit it, he will bring back some good vibes to what sounded like a pretty run-of-the-mill clubhouse last year. The window of this team winning is closing very, very quickly. If a .230 average is what is keeping this team from challenging in the division, there is a guy in Rowand who is pretty much a lock for at least a a .270 average (fully aware he hit .262 last year). In my opinion, Mackowiak would be the odd-man-out--but, Erstad steps in as the backup 1B as well as corner outfielder, and Rowand steps in as the backup center-fielder...looks fine to me.

I know many of us have come to like Rob Mackowiak and his style of play. In fact, I was pulling for the Sox to acquire the Oak Lawn native since the 2004 trade deadline. However, I would have to guess Mackowiak would be on the move. Raising the question: if Rowand can be had for some reasonable minor league talent (excluding even Boone Logan if you wish), would you all be fine with essentially swapping Mackowiak's spot on the roster with Aaron Rowand? I ask, because I feel that is the situation we are looking at. And, for the record (something I don't believe I ever posted), a family member of mine who was quite close with Aaron during his time here said Aaron told him that when he was moved, Williams said he was going to make significant attempts to get him back in a White Sox jersey as soon as possible. Now, this could be a bit of the coach/GM-speak; I'm not sure that they don't say this to everyone. But, it is just something else to think about. Where there's smoke, there is usually fire.

If you can swing a deal to bring Rowand back for spare parts, you pull the trigger. ...and that's all I have to say about that. QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 9, 2007 -> 10:19 AM) Actually, Rowand was ungodly awful during the postseason. See: Rowand in New York Yankees series. Point being: you know what you have in Rowand. That's a lot more than can be said of most of the White Sox outfielders--including this team's starting left-fielder.

QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 9, 2007 -> 10:15 AM) Which outfielders do we have that can put up decent to solid numbers vs LHP? ...but...but...but...our minor league system is stocked with outfielders! Rowand has played on the biggest stage the game has to offer and he didn't piss down his leg. When has the White Sox organization ever shown you they could develop minor league talent? Put major leaguers on the field.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 9, 2007 -> 10:11 AM) Literally, he is probably our 10th starter, and he has no minor league options left. The guy is 100% expendable. Exactly. Absolutely right. Also, take a look at the Phillies' left-handed pitching situation. It is really quite grim. A guy like Phillips starts to look like an awfully big bargaining chip when dealing with a team like that.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Mar 9, 2007 -> 09:44 AM) Sean Tracey, and poo to be named later is enough. I realize this is in jest, but, I wonder just how much it would take to reacquire Rowand. Clearly, guys like Rogowski, Sean Tracey, Paulino Reynoso, and, to a lesser extent, Heath Phillips have no future roles in this organization. However, that is not to say they wouldn't be valuable elsewhere. I wonder if a package of spare parts could reacquire Rowand--something along the lines of Rogowski-Tracey-Phillips, or even something with Luis Terrero as the Phillies have zero depth in the outfield as it is. I didn't shed a tear when Rowand left; but, for some illogical, irrational reason, I was excited when I read something may actually be in the works (this is far more logical than past Rowand reports). As much as it pains me to admit it, chemistry actually did have a major role in that magical 2005 season. With Rowand back in the clubhouse, maybe some of those good vibes will be back.

QUOTE(quickman @ Mar 9, 2007 -> 07:42 AM) Southsider, long time no talk, hope all is well, I don't post much anymore and if I do its only to certian folks,i just thought I needed to comment on this, Boone logan, andersen sweeney and just about every other minor league player we have Blows. We need a center fielder and the Sox love rowand and most likely he will sign with us for less money to play here. In addition, Boone Logan didn't exactly light he place up last year. furthermore anytime the sox start talking up one of there young players you know they are as good as gone. I would love to have rowand back, not because he is great just because he is way better than the crap we currently have. In addition maybe we can send gavin floyd back because he sucks too, he has no killer instinct. hope to see you around town or at the park sometime. take care. You're the best, TQ. Young baseball fans, listen to what this guy has to say. Make sure to check your PMs over the next couple of weeks. Real baseball is right around the corner.

Doesn't this title formally belong to the University of Illinois? The answer is the University of Illinois. A small, but powerful argument could be made for Ray Meyer's DePaul teams. But, the answer is the University of Illinois. No question.

QUOTE(Jimbo @ Mar 6, 2007 -> 12:02 AM) your bitter, im not worried the least. No, no. Rest assured. You're a DB.

QUOTE(Jimbo @ Mar 5, 2007 -> 04:34 PM) sorry the truth hurts my friend, illinois is going in a total direction than they should be. I mean next year's class is just as much crap as this year. wooooohoooo a bunch of fringe top 150 players. It has nothing to do with Illinois. Illinois sucks. The Illinois program isn't going to do anything of note for quite some time. My point remains. EDIT: ...but, good luck with Bucknell. You know how those fantastic mid-major teams, chock full of mid-major talent can sneak up on some great college basketball programs in the tournament.

JD=DB Sorry. I just couldn't keep it in anymore.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Feb 25, 2007 -> 03:03 PM) Im not sorry, I really dont think its that great. As far as being part of a tradition at a University, mine was founded in 1809, there were plenty I took part in. Yes, such as: pretending we are enrolled at The Ohio State University, partying at The Ohio State University every weekend because my campus was a dump, watching riveting MAC sports action, hanging with rich, Jewish kids...I could go on. Worry about your own damn school.

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Feb 22, 2007 -> 06:02 PM) BOOOOO!!!! Hoy-oh All kidding aside, I have enjoyed and appreciated your thoughts on this matter, Corn. I think both you and doc have represented the alumni population very well. I've said my piece on this matter and I look forward to enjoying a most-promising football campaign with you.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Feb 22, 2007 -> 05:42 PM) Duh, less than 1 percent of all students at U of I are native american, its simple numbers game. Let's hear from the If an overwhelming majority of the At the end of the day, I really could care less what your response to this prompt may be. Rather, I suppose that was a voicing of one of my largest concerns to the general public. Chief has danced his last dance, I have already exceeding my self-allotted period of intense mourning, and I am looking forward to the conclusion of a very depressing Illini basketball campaign. The Illini Athletic Department has much bigger fish to fry--such as getting to the bottom of the Smith incident and administering just punishment. It's "chief" concern should be not falling by the ethical wayside that so many other state institutions have been reduced to (i.e. Cincinnati, UNLV, etc.).

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Feb 22, 2007 -> 05:14 PM) Just be consistent. Absolutely. That's all I ask. QUOTE(StrangeSox @ Feb 22, 2007 -> 05:23 PM) Actually a majority of the people that b**** and protest are a bunch of white kids from the Chicago suburbs. So, yeah, I'm right. Absolutely no doubt in my mind that this statement is accurate. When the best the News networks can do for a source on the matter is a University of Illinois professor with a last name ending in -stein, I think it becomes very easy for those of us criticizing the authenticity of the majority of those aligned with the Anti-Chief camp to be considered validated. I also wonder if said majority would champion an Anti-Seminole cause if the University hasn't reached an "agreement" with the tribe in years past.

QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Feb 22, 2007 -> 04:43 PM) Yes, they too are racist. I thank you and I applaud your consistency. Honestly.

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Feb 22, 2007 -> 03:36 PM) Are you really comparing this to slavery? C'mon.... So, is Florida State or Utah any less racist? Just because they have an agreement with the tribe? Any more honorable? If the NCAA is going to blast one school because it's racist, then all of them should be, no matter what the agreement is. Do you guys agree? Please. Answer this. Answer the man. Those arguing against keeping the Chief tradition, answer this question.

QUOTE(IlliniKrush @ Feb 22, 2007 -> 12:50 AM) I'm sad to see the Chief go. I see why he's going, and i'm not throwing a hissy fit about it even though I think the reasons behind it aren't very good. But it's something you become accustomed to, and you don't think of it as a native indian type thing at all. It just becomes part of your school experience. The reason it meant a lot to me is that it always came right before the Alma Mater at a bball game or football game, a time when students and alumni of all shapes and sizes could celebrate the school as one. Surrounding the court and singing the Alma Mater with fellow fans while the Chief holds his arms wide open for all makes you feel like you are at the heart of the university. It was one of my favorite traditions. Now i'm sure it will live on in some fashion, as the Alma Mater won't go away, but it won't be quite the same. That's one reason I think it meant a lot to others as well, maybe not. I'm sure everyone has their reasons. If you didn't go to the school you don't have to get it and i respect everyone's opinions about it. But people are indeed emotional about it for various reasons (I mean imagine some alum from the 60's or whatever that has seen this for years), i'm not to the point of crying for days over it by any means, but i'd be lying if i didn't feel a bit choked up while watching him come back out one last time to acknowledge the crowd. Kudos to ESPNU for at least covering the entire thing. Krush, Steve-O, Dorf, Corn, others, We all know what Chief meant to us, our undergraduate experience, and our UIUC history and pride. There is no real use in trying to convey what we are feeling today to others whom have not had the same collegiate experience. It truly is hard seeing him go. In many respects, he represented our collegiate experience--academics, athletics, student camaraderie, etc. I wish my kids could have experienced their old man's favorite U of I tradition. He was much more than a mascot and all of us know that; today is for us current or former Illinois students, don't let others rain on our parade. I was proud of all Chief represented. Oskee-Wow-Wow