Wong & Owens

A few years ago, the Sox won a game in which they were no-hit. we beat the Yankees in that game, didn't we ? In the mid 90s - final was 4-0 Sox and we didn't have a hit is what I recall. It was earlier than that. I think like 1988, because it was in the old ballpark. I can't remember who pitched for us, but I know that Andy Hawkins of the Yankees pitched the no hitter, but they made either 3 or 4 errors behind him. I think it was Melido Perez who started that game, and if I remember right, the Yankees lost a bunch of fly balls in the sun that bounced off their gloves. As for this year's Sox team, I can only think of I line from the crappy Nicolas Cage vehicle, "8 mm." -- "Kill them, Machine. Kill them all!" Not literally, you pc bastards. Fire Jerry Manuel.

I agree, I think Kapler is just another case of a great physical specimen with talents that don't quite translate into a good baseball player. Fire Jerry Manuel.

I can't believe Manuel had Konerko bunt in that situation. I can see why he batted for Daubach, because if memory serves, A) A lefty was on the mound, and B) Konerko's average against lefties(though surely with much fewer at-bats) is actually pretty high, over.300 I think? But putting a struggling hitter whose head is obviously messed up in a high-pressure situation, and ask him to do something he hasn't done since the minor leagues shows, IMHO, that Manuel has no "feel" for the game, nor does he know how to put his players in the best position to succeed. Manuel MUST be fired, I have no doubts anymore.

I've said numerous times this season that I thought Frank was washed-up. Looks like I'm wrong, as long as they keep him at 1B. So, mea culpa, leave him alone, JM, and keep whacking away Big Hurt

You know, this was a highly-informed and entertaining thread, up until it turned into a pissing contest. I think you both have valid points, but lest any of you start feeling a bit superior, I would ask you to lay out your MLB credentials in front of the entire subscriber base. We're all pretty much in the same boat here--Sox fans. Some are more educated, some more eloquent, and some more experienced. The mix of every member's level of knowledge, writing ability, etc. is what makes this board so much fun. However, unless Sparky Anderson, or Don Zimmer, or hell, Bobby Valentine are residing behind the nicknames here, nobody has much of a leg to stand on as far as ridiculing another member's theories or opinions. And as for the personal attacks--whether they be blunt and up front, or more subtlely conveyed beneath snide sarcasm and dictionary terminology--they're all 3rd grade crap, embarassing, and completely unnecessary.

Can I assume that this is NOT Brian Anderson, middling starter for the Cleveland INdians? Hey with KW at the controls, it's a legit question!

Willis is another of those players the Cubs traded that will haunt them for years to come. I wish we could put Garland in that category as of right now, but as of right now, I am just not sure we can. You can't even put Garland in the "best pitcher in the trade" category yet. Matt Karchner's still had a better career, but it's really early on Jonny Boy yet. Once he learns that each batter gets 3 strikes instead of 2, he could really be something. http://www.baseballreference.com/k/karchma01.shtml What about that career is so good? If he was any good he wouldn't have disappeared from baseball. It's not, that was my point to all people who seem to have it in their heads that the Sox pulled of the heist of the century when they made that trade. It might turn out to be a nice swindling, but as of now it's no better than a wash.

Willis is another of those players the Cubs traded that will haunt them for years to come. I wish we could put Garland in that category as of right now, but as of right now, I am just not sure we can. You can't even put Garland in the "best pitcher in the trade" category yet. Matt Karchner's still had a better career, but it's really early on Jonny Boy yet. Once he learns that each batter gets 3 strikes instead of 2, he could really be something.

C-Miller 1B-Thomas 2B-Grudzelianek ss-Gonzalez 3B-Crede LF-Sosa CF-Patterson RF-Ordonez Bench-Alou, Graffanino, Jimenez, Olivo, Valentin, Harris(Lenny) Rotation-Wood, Colon, Loaiza, Prior, Buehrle Relief-Remlinger, Marte, Borowski, Koch, Wunsch, Guthrie

Garland and Wright pitching for the Sox, two rookies going for the Giants. Looks like a guaranteed two game losing streak to me.

I watched him botch a couple this year, and as A non-Cubs hater(sorry), I watched him in SF a bit too. Regardless, you may be right as far as one not being a better bunter than the other, but if he was just going to put Graffy in in the bottom of the ninth anyways, why waste Rios in a sac bunt situation? He might have been needed later in the game.

OK, top of the ninth, Borchard on 2nd with a leadoff double. Manuel wants to bunt the guy over so he brings in Rios, arguably the team's worst bunter. Rios screws it up, and because he batted for Crede, Graffanino--arguably the team's best fundamental player at the plate--goes into the field in the bottom of the ninth. My question is--WHY THE f*** DIDN'T MANUEL JUST LET GRAFFY BAT FOR CREDE AND BUNT JB OVER IN THE FIRST PLACE!?!? THE IDIOT WASTES A LEFT-HANDED BAT FOR A PINCH-BUNTING APPEARANCE, USING A GUY WHO CAN'T f***ING BUNT, AND LEAVES THE GUY WHO WILL BE PLAYING FOR THE DURATION, WHO IS A MUCH BETTER BUNTER ON THE GODDAMNED BENCH?! WHY? GO AWAY MANUEL, EAT MONKEYs***!!!

And another thing-- Sure they're only 7.5 games behind the Twins, but they're only 4 games AHEAD of the friggin Indians.

Barring some major injuries befalling the Twinkies, this season is done. They'll fall to about 15-16 games back, before going on another patented worthless run in August/September to end the year about 6-7 out. There are about 4-5 key outs, and 2-3 key hits per game that you have to get regularly in order to be a winner, and the Sox get none of them, all the time. Twins = greater than the sum of all parts, whereas as the Sox are the exact opposite. Throw into the mix that there will be distractions in about 2 weeks concerning who's getting traded, and I would say I'd bet everything I own that this season, only 52 games in, is already over.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. When talking about Loaiza, I don't see how anybody can just throw away 7-8 years of very mediocre pitching based on 2 months of success. He's pitching great, and I'm ecstatic we have him right now, but a long term deal? Slowwww dowwwwwwwnnnnnn.

How about these possibilities: Steve Finley-- if the DBacks fall too far out, wouldn't Arizona want to trade some old farts for some younger players? Jim Edmonds--St. Louis needs pitching--badly. It might make sense for them to move him for some arms Jose Guillen--He doesn't want to play in a platoon, and Cincy has 308 outfielders on their team.

If by, "alright," you mean, terrible, then yes.

The best positive I can find is that we're playing like s-h-i-t, and yet we're only 5.5 games out of first. If they can not fall farther back by the break, I might be able to find some optimism again.

That's fine and all, but it does us no good if we don't beat Toronto, and whoever comes after that. I'm as pessimistic now as I've ever been in the last 8 years. I mean, come on, how confident can you be when you go into a huge series, have your ace on the hill, and get blown out 18-3. Sorry, I just don't buy into the fluke argument, not at this point.

Huh?

Want to buy a 1968 Pontiac LeMans? Please? It runs great!!!!!

Steff, you are a true White Sox trooper. And, the exception to the rule. I wish there were more folks like you out there, but I'm skeptical that there are very many.

What was that movie--Real Genius? where that guy who lived in the closet mailed all those entries to some contest and won 95% of all the prizes...you should find out how he did that.

OK, but do either of you have kids? And if you do, do you bring them with, assuming they aren't infants or something? There of course are exceptions to the drinking--northsider rule, just making a general point about the demographics at your average Cubs game, vs those of a Sox game.