RockRaines

Isnt speculation and discussion the point of a message board? When I took things a little more personally than I should have especially during the Tressel situation I simply didnt open the thread for a few months. It definitely helps.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 01:35 PM) See, this is the problem with the media coverage to this point. Now we're comparing Joe to Barry Bonds. As if he was just as guilty as the other actors in our story...needless to say we have a child rapist involved, Paterno is more famous so we should be talking about him instead! No, comparing the media coverage. Highest profile will always get most attention.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 01:29 PM) So new theory: The cover-up in 98 and subsequent forced retirement in 99 stems directly from the top brasses knowledge that Sandusky was pimping out kids to a whole lotta rich, rich donors to the school. If they reported him not only would they open up Penn State to embarrassment, but they further could have risked Sandusky outing all the rich donors. Not at all justifying any of this of course. Just wondering if that was why they didn't report him and allowed him to stick around. Its possible, I'm sure this theory is being investigated. Regardless there is a reason that the "coach in waiting" was forced to retire abruptly after being investigated for molestation. The question also is: Why wasnt he hired by ANY other program in the country after his retirement? He wasnt very old, he was an extremely effective coach, and im sure there were many openings around the sport.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 01:28 PM) Oh, great analogy. Ok, BALCO, name the key people involved, and the most vilified person. The highest profile person involved in a scandal is always the most publicized. Its a pretty simple concept.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 01:23 PM) Paterno is getting the lion's share of the publicity here. Which has all been negative, in case you haven't noticed. That either equals or is even worse than receiving the blame. Well yeah, he's the most famous. The same way Kim Kardashian is getting most of the publicity about her divorce. Thats how it works.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 01:21 PM) You're accusing the University of manipulating our justice system in order to allow a pedophile and rapist to go free, IN ORDER TO PROTECT A FOOTBALL PROGRAM It wouldnt surprise me to see these exact facts come to light. The evidence already suggests this, otherwise the investigations and the fact there was an accused Pedophile running rampant would have made its way to the other board members of the Charity Joe sat on when he learned about these acts in 1998 and 2002.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 01:21 PM) Do you honestly read what you're typing? You're placing the majority of the blame on an elderly man, who by all accounts, has led an exemplary life and been an exemplary person, instead of the school administrators, the President of the University, the molester himself, the local law enforcement, and the District Attorney. You're accusing the University of manipulating our justice system in order to allow a pedophile and rapist to go free, and Joe Paterno is the biggest story here? GMAFB. I dont see where he is getting "the majority of the blame" in his statements. The subject that you are arguing is Joe Paterno and he responded on the same subject.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:33 PM) Following along what shack, soxbadger and others are stressing, we don't actually know that. I personally think it's a safe assumption, but I'm not willing to go that far yet based on what we know. WE can make guesses but that's about it. I'm positive the information will shake out eventually anyway, especially with outfits like the FBi involved.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:33 PM) Yes. I highly doubt he has such a stipulation though What's the NCAA rule you keep referring to, anyways? Most coaches do. And I posted it several pages back. It's a conduct rule, and could easily be invoked in this situation.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:28 PM) Again, Rock, exculpatory clauses like that mean jack s*** in court. An organization cannot just make up an incredibly subjective rule such as the "code of conduct" rule involved here and use it to fire whomever they want. Most states are not right to work states. Employers can fire most employees for nearly anything. But the second they give you a contract, they are legally binded to follow the terms of that contract, unless the employee breaches it. In this instance, Paterno informed his superiors of an incident he was told about. Most legal commentators will tell you that by doing that, he not only did what was expected of him legally, but also to comply with the terms of his contract. So if he has a stipulation in his contract the he can be terminated if he violates an NCAA rule, and then he violates a rule, and still can't be fired?

Funny how an error in judgement is grounds for many other coaches to lose their jobs, but with Paterno, no way.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:20 PM) If it shakes out that the cover-up was deliberate and they knew what happened, I'd be comfortable with calling for their football stadium to be burned to the ground. IMO based in the timelines and circumstances I think this is exactly what is going to come out. Wy else would the coach in waiting be forced into retirement directly after being investigated for molestation. Why else would PSU ban Sandusky from taking boys on campus in 2002. Why else would Paterno hide these investigations from the rest of the board at the Second Mile for 10 years other than he wanted to keep it internal to an organization he could control. The worst is yet to come on this one.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:08 PM) His own words. If all you got was "Something inappropriate involving an 8 year old boy"...and you are in the same position as Joe Paterno, it is incumbent upon you to act more. Whether that is asking more questions or taking a harsher stance with administration to make sure that it is dealt with, you have to do something more. Failure to do that alone is cause for him being fired. No one is suggesting he is legally culpable for anythign here. He reported it upwards, and the people above him decided to cover it up. He may at some point be named as a conspirator in a coverup by the people above him, that remains to be seen, but at present, he's not a criminal, but he received from the university exactly what needed to happen. Quite simply...failure to do enough in response to what he has already admitted to hearing is more than grounds for termination.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:03 PM) As of right now, if he truly wanted to take PSU to court, my guess is they would settle with him for every penny he is owed. Is that a yes or no? He violated his contract with his code of conduct violation and also violated an NCAA rule which also violates his contract.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 12:00 PM) Oh yeah, for sure. We're just a message board. JoePa got canned because he and the rest of the administration allowed a monster to continue to roam campus and ruin children's lives. He certainly needed to be canned for that. He's not a "fall-guy", he deserved to be canned. No one can question this. However, I think things are much worse than we know right now. Just wait when the details shake out and people start singing like birds. When we find out the details about Sandusky, the coach in waiting, retiring because of the first incident in conjunction with the staff covering his actions up it will be sick. I still don't understand how Paterno could hear n 2 separate occasions about his actions with boys and as a board member of the 2nd mile charity didn't report this to the rest of the leadership. It took another 5 years until they were informed. Where was his head at that time? Wouldn't you immediately report these actions to the charity that places him near little boys? Maybe you wouldn't if it was harder to control the people outside of PSU.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 11:57 AM) He sure could, yes. He has a contract. Your employer could fire you for anything they want. That doesn't mean it would stand up. So you are saying there weren't grounds for termination?

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 11:54 AM) If the scenario is as I believe it to be, and a campus-wide cover-up is what allowed this story to wait 13 years to break, then I think he and many others are absolutely guilty of criminal negligence. But nobody is saying that, we are all saying there was grounds for termination at this point. That simple fact doesn't allow SB to spew his bulls*** so he is claiming that we are putting JoePa on trial for some sort of crime.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 11:53 AM) The grand jury report is built off of nothing but tons and tons of testimony, and has been linked in this thread like 35 times. They went to GJ with 4 victims and about 16 more have shaken out so far. But I'm sure it's all conjecture and heresay.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 11:51 AM) SS2k, I know I am, I really should stop posting. But there is a part of me that believes if just 1 person can see that Paterno deserves the chance to defend himself before we proclaim him guilty, than it was worth it. I truly believe that we as a society must fight for "innocent until proven guilty", because it is so easy to just call people guilty. You dont think its easier for me to sit here and say "Screw Paterno he should rot in hell" Of course it is, but the easy road isnt always the right road. Guilty of what exactly? I haven't seen one person say he is guilty of a crime.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 11:48 AM) Just to bring this to your attention, the employee code of conduct is just a bs exculpatory clause that means jack s*** in court. I'm not sure of the NCAA violation because I forgot which it was, but the employee code is nonsense. I'm not arguing that he shouldn't be fired, however. Court for what? I said grounds for termination, that's all. Is he suing for his job back or something?

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 11:39 AM) Clearly, and sadly, Sandusky was forced to retire in 1999 by JoePa and PSU to keep this story from being a problem for them. "Jerry, buddy, you gotta stop diddling these kids; we can't have that around campus. You need to retire." Cover it up, save the program. Jerry keeps diddling, because he's sick as s***. "Jerry, you're still doing it? Jesus, man. Well, keep those kids off our campus." Cover it up, save the program. Jerry keeps diddling, because he's sick as s***. "Jerry's at practice again with one of his kids. Sh*t." Cover it up, save the program. PSU and JoePa did nothing, because they didn't want anything to get out. I actually think things could be much, much worse for JoePa and Co. right now, and probably should be. In my mind, their negligence is entirely criminal. JoePa learned about this in 1998 and 2002 and yet as a board member of the Charity, never told anyone associated with it until they found out about it in 2007. The coverup took alot of work.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 11:16 AM) Soxbadger. Champion of the people and the accused. I'd rather there had been a champion of innocent boys in this case. For being such a smart lawyer he fails to see that we aren't discussing guilt during a criminal trial, but only the grounds for termination of an employee. Technically he violated the PSU employee code of conduct and also an NCAA violation. But hey, not everyone can be a lawyer.

Amazing that this story was posted in April http://www.timesonline.com/columnists/spor...1a4bcf6878.html

QUOTE (kev211 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 10:12 AM) McQuery will be coaching on Saturday. What a joke, he's the most at fault of anyone for not going to the police. Edit: Which just continues to prove that Joe Pa is the fall guy. What about the other three guys who lost their jobs? Did they not take a fall as well? The f***ing President just lost his job, either you believe JoePa was more powerful at PSU or you have ignored this fact entirely.