BrandoFan

Seriously, if Atlanta is so hell-bent on dumping Jones's salary, couldn't they be interested in Konerko (and good prospects, naturally) - they save 4 Mill this year, 4 Mill next year and 13 Mill in 2006 and 2007 each as well as get good OF and pitching prospects? I highly doubt they even consider it, but you never know with the way Kong is mashing the ball this year.

"lesser prospect" = A-ball I was basically pointing out that it's NOT really Ortiz + Jones for Maggs because Ortiz could be had straight up for prospects, so I don't want to hear how it's fair because it's 2 ML players for 1........ I realize that Andruw has a big time talent and may make us all wish we did an Ordonez swap....I just don't like what I see from him this year, truly ugly stuff.

A) From that place where Ortiz is a 4.50-4.75 ERA pitcher in AL (at USCF) the way he's pitching this year. B..) From that place where Altlanta is falling out of contention and might want to do some salary dumpin' C) From that place where the original Ortiz rumor was reported - wasn't it Rauch + another prospect (Sweeney?) that was discussed before Andrew Jones/Maggs part was added later on?

He is a junkballer, his "stuff" is non-existent.

Where are Finley and Drew options? And Carl Crawford is not available, so you might as well erase him.

You're not sure? From another thread:

I think you're still stuck in pre-2003 era. In the last 2 seasons, Andruw has lost a step in quickness and is no longer busting his ass out there 100%. Both factors (health and effort) have lowered his CF skills from "great" to merely "very good". I think you're underestimating Rowand's defense. He is now officially as fast as Jones and he's got more hustle. His arm is every bit as good. True, even now Jones gets better jumps than Rowand, but Aaron is hardly ever allowed to get in any sort of rhythm - he's been benched so much in 2002-2004. If he plays every day, you'll only see a slight defensive downgrade going from Jones to Rowand - not nearly as big as if you were to make this switch in, say, 2000. Aaron also makes 350 K, which allows the Sox to spend the remaining 12 on PITCHING, PITCHING AND MORE PITCHING - you ain't going anywhere with Garland as your #3 and Shoenweiss as your #4.........NO MATTER IF IT'S ROWAND OR JONES PLAYING CF BEHIND THEM..

Jones' salary will average 13 Mill over 2005-2007. That's only 1 extra Mill less than what Maggs wants - and that Mill will probably be deferred. Since 2001, Maggs has been a much better hitter if you consider the clutch numbers, he plays good RF and his baserunner is very comparable to Andruw's. Since I think Jones has slipped defensively just enough in the last 2 years to the point where he is no longer the Messiah in CF, and Magglio is a home grown product who might just put up career best numbers in the 2nd half playing for a contract........Why do this trade? Yes, Andruw might get over his aching knees, lose 20 pounds, stop chasing pitches in the dirt, ground into DP and start hitting in the clutch - and become a GREAT player in the process. Yes, it may very well backfire if Maggs doesn't have a career 2nd half this year. I am willing to take that chance. Give me Drew for Konerko and prospects instead.

Wrong. 2000 was his best. Last year, he was backed up by Sheffiled, Lopez, Chipper, Giles and Castilla; he didn't have to be THE man and yet he still put up a very ordinary OPS - for a supposed "star" anyway. In 2001-2003, his clutch hitting was BAD relative to his peers, so you better not count on him in close games, and clutch-hitting (whether you ascribe it to skill, luck or both) is the ONLY thing that can make up for less-than-great overall production. Yeah, he's gonna lose 15 pounds as soon as he comes here....yeah he is just feeling depressed cuz his team is not doing well.....Maybe he'll stop grounding into a DP every other game, too, while he's at it, uh-huh. I would LOVE to have Andruw, but only if it costs us Konerko and prospects, and NOT Magglio who may - just may - have a great 2nd half trying to earn a big contract in the off-season. Remember Belle? This team needs PITCHING and then after that need is alleviated, a LH power bat in the Drew/Finley mold, preferrably the former. We do need NOT need Andruw, trust me on this one. Sorry to burst your hype bobble.

Do YOU? He's gotten fatter and more complacent in the last 2 seasons. That's not just my opinion, either. A few years back he was one of the best defensive CF of the modern era. Last couple of seasons, he's merely a Gold Glove candidate - better than Rowand (who is above average but has a chance to be close to GG level once he plays the position for a year or two without having to sit on the bench or be jerked around), but not by THAT much. AND, if you don't believe your eyes, it's supported by advanced defensive metrics - both Cameron and Beltran rank off the charts in the last 2 years while Jones went from being THE man in 1999-2002 to "merely" top 7, but not anywhere close to the standard he set earlier in his career. Andruw Jones is flailing at and rolling over breaking balls and generally chasing pitcher's pitches. He is lost. Do you think that would be cured by USCF? Didn't help Konerko much last year, did it? Again: --Andruw has NO incentive to bust his ass anymore. Fat contract and all. --His power numbers are very ordinary - bad pitch selection catches up to you. --Last few years, he proved himself to be a BELOW-average clutch hitter compared to his All-Star peers. 3+ year sample size is good enough for me. --He went from being a good base-runner to bad in just 3 years. --He is on pace to 35 GIDP.....THIRTY FIVE!!!! Even slow-as-molasses Konerko will only ground into HALF of that amount. Even Mr.GIDP Ordonez is on pace to hit into 16 of them this year. --His D is not THAT good anymore --Atlanta beat reporter claims he is bothered by his knees. This trade has NOTHING to do with Ortiz. Ortiz could be had for Rauch and a lesser prospect, or so it seems. This trade is Magglio for Andruw straight-up. I'd rather take a chance on Maggs, hoping that he has an Albert Belle-esque 2nd half playing for a contract. JD Drew on the other hand, I like. Not for Maggs, but if they want Paul Konerko (and a few prospects of course), then DO IT RIGHT NOW.

I do not let Uribe off the hook on that one - boy, did he pick the wrong time and the wrong game to f*** up or what! It also shows why Willie is the better 2B - his footwork is better, he doesn't drop that ball. However, Gload also gets an "error" on that play, albeit one that won't hurt his precious Fielding %. Mental error

That liner by Gerut that Rowand caught while running on wet grass is as good as it gets as far as jump and route go. Once Aaron gets to play CF for a few years, he'll be a pretty effin' good CF (think Kotsay but faster) -- not as good as Jones, but not a "jock-carrier" either. He won't be making 13 Mill, either.

I should add that if Sox were hell-bent on getting a LH bat, JD Drew would be a killer bargain. Atlanta knows that with Boras they won't resign him, so who knows, if they fall out of contention.......Stebe Finley is a nice back-up option.

Actually, if Jones has proven anything in the last 3+ years is that he CANNOT hit with RO and RISP nearly as well as other "superstars" - this year he is hitting something like .200 with RO/RISP, esp with 2 outs. His 2004 'Close and Late' is very good, but it's a small sample size - and in 2001-2003, his 'Close and Late' OPS is something like 600 - horrible for a player of anybody's caliber let alone Jones's. That's Royce Clayton territory. This guy could be a stud supporting player, but if you're gonna expect him to fill in Magglio's shoes, you're gonna be REALLY disappointed. He is mentally weak to be a super-star slugger, to be perfectly honest. Furthermore, don't expect Jones to steal more than 8-10 bases a year either - he ain't the same baserunner he was in his early 20's. Same as Maggs basically. Yeah, he can go get it in the OF, but so can Aaron Rowand albeit not quite as well. Why should Sox get Jones again if he can't out-produce Aaron Rowand who makes league minimum again? And Russ Ortiz will be more than welcome in our starting rotation, but not if it costs us Magglio - this guy is on pace to 140 RBI if you extrapolate his numbers to full season, and, who knows, he may have a KILLER 2nd half trying to earn a big contract in the off-season.........What's Andruw Jones's incentive to bust his ass again? f*** no on the trade, in other words - and I've always considered Magglio overrrated, mind you.

Huh? Drew: -make 4 Mill this year -plays outstanding OF -is a quality baserunner -is out-producing Konerko while hitting in a pitcher's park -is a lefty bat - Sox are much weaker against RHP and Konerko is another RH. -seems pretty damn healthy for a change So he will walk after this year, I could care less. Konerko will be making nearly 9 Mill next year and he is probably not worth it to the Sox the way he is producing NOW, let alone his career averages, all things considered. Use that money to re-sign Drew if he has a spectacular 2nd half, or better yet, invest it into starting pitching - preferably into a ground-baller, if you know what I mean

I am loving Paulie's current production - both his power- and clutch-hitting are way up compared to last year, and his GIDP are way down. But his range/reflexes are still below average; he still hits into too many DP; it still takes 3 singles to score him from 1st; and then there is the Hip of Doom. Did I mention he makes 17 Mill in 2004 and 2005? If Sox want to keep Maggs, Sox simply cannot afford both Lee and Konerko if they want to be competitive, and Lee (at his career levels) offers you better overall value than Konerko does since he can play decent OF and can actually run a little. Also, Lee arguably has a higher upside than Konerko does, so that should count for something - although at this point, I am not so sure Carlos has enough Hitting IQ to be a poor man's Manny Ramirez. All Paulie needs is to keep this up for another 2 weeks and he might have a shot at being an All-Star - Uribe is fading fast, so Thomas might end up being the only one picked. David Ortiz is the only 1B who is playing better, although that f*** Hattenberg might challege him at some point. Giambi is a sham.....In any case, my point is that if he keeps it up for another few weeks, his TRADE VALUE will be cemented and 2003 will be looked on as a fluke. I mean, consider who plays LF-RF-DH-1B on some of the contending teams. My god, look at who Texas trotted out there today in the OF - Conti, Delluci and Mench.....:puke Barring a sudden outburst of generosity from The Jerry, Sox are gonna miss-out on some BIG-TIME (mostly pitching) talent because they don't want (and shouldn't) to give up Reed, Sweeney, Anderson, which teams are gonna demand if they are to pick up a chunk of said big-time pitcher's salary. Getting rid of Konerko's would be tremendeous in that it would free up the money Sox weren't planning on spending - so in addition to Ortiz, now you might get Glavine as well should Mets fall out of the race. Of course when I say trade Konerko to free up some space on the payroll, I mean "sweeten up the deal with a prospect or two so the contending team A will actually take all of Kong's money".........I am not interested in salary swaps because the way Konerko is hitting now, he's an ASSET to us as well. Another benefit of Konerko's departure: Lee and Frank split time at 1B whic would allows the Sox to go after JD Drew who is cheap and VERY good.

He needs to atone for last year's game against the Cubs. Getting beat by Karros and O'Leary? How f***ing lame.

Ukranian c*nt [/faux intra-ethnic hate]

Sat GoG: Timo Perez (huge DP with game still tied) Hon mention: Crede

I won't go THAT far, but loss of Koch is HUUUUGE. Remember how he single-handedly stopped our momentum in 2003 in Tampa (there were numerous moments when he and Rick White shat all over Sox fans, but that was Definitive Koch) and set the team into the tail-spin that basically cost them the season in retrospect? What about him turning a thriving 31-22 team that just handled Texas and Anaheim with relative ease.....into the blooody mess they are today by blowing Oakland and Seattle games with enviable verve? Sox should have admitted their screw-up and cut their losses - best stock traders of all time were wrong at least 50% of the time but made millions because, among other things, they knew how to minimize their losses. I blame JR for a lot of things, but KW is the one who's responsible for these losses since obviously forced Manuel and Ozzie to continue to go with him.

As if there is any doubt. Comeback against KC, one in Minnesota and a couple of others were big, but in this one Sox were actually DESPERATE for a win, a some sort of miracle - entire season is on the line, remember? Plus, dude, the Kubbies...... Of course of Loaiza fails to step up tomorrow, it might be not mean quite as much. If E-Lo could mow through Florida's line-up and make Indians seem pathetic in first 4 innings, why couldn't he shut Cubs down? Come on Elo, show us why you deserve to start against Curt Shilling in ALDS and get big money in the off-season. Garland brought his game (first 4 innings only), but can't you?

Again....who gives a f***. It's one thing when a player like Willie Mays added a HUGE dimension to his overall worth as a player by playing HOF-quality defense..........And quite another when Mo Vaughn or Mike Piazza play the field 5 years past their prime and in the process give up a s***loaf of bases/outs/runs over the league average for their respective postions. Sorry, if you're a bad fielder, especially at 1B position, it should be counted AGAINST you when compared to a DH, and not the other way around.

It's a long season, meat-head. Let the yawning commence...now.

Pretty nice?? He pitched the biggest game of the season by ANY Sox starter. His runs were given up once the Sox got off to a 5-0 nothing lead. Who knows, if he gives up a couple of runs in the first 3 innings and Zambrano gets the lead, Sox probably do not score and lose this game. Seen it happen to the Sox and Zambrano MANY, MANY times. Diaz pitched a HELLAVA game - which is more than I could say for Judy.