Balta1701

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 7, 2014 -> 10:55 AM) I love this new "arguing to argue" a couple of guys are giving me now when, of course, they are arguing against me. I already stated this Deng move was IMO the correct move. The point is, there really isn't a max contract realistic target out there right now. Trading Noah or Gibson to get enough to offer a max contract this coming offseason doesn't make things better, it will make things worse. How are "Melo and Lebron" not realistic targets when Melo has already dropped the Bulls name personally? Yeah it could just be leverage, yeah they could strike out and have to sign someone lesser like Luol Deng, but both Gibson and Noah are perfect fits for any team wanting to win now and a poor fit for a team that needs to see what happens in the draft first.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 7, 2014 -> 10:35 AM) The max deal guys are LeBron, Wade, Bosh, Amare, Melo...who else? What are the chances the Bulls land any of them, and except for LeBron, which one makes them championship material if they land him? Maybe Melo. But if you have to get rid of Noah to get Melo, I don't think that team is a crown waiting to happen. If the Bulls were to, hypothetically, add Mirotic and trade one of Gibson and Noah, then have 2 picks somewhere around #10 which could plausibly both be spent on big men (that's right in the range where Vonleh would be projected if he came out), and add Melo, and again hire Jesus as their athletic trainer, they could be sporting a lineup of Butler/Rose/NoahorGibsonplusdraftpicks/Melo/Mirotic with decent depth at several positions counting guys like Snell and a little bit of excess money to go after backups. That team could darn well be a crown waiting to happen.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 7, 2014 -> 10:35 AM) Karko? COrrect, yes. D'oh, my bad.

Xenophobes mostly have shut that response off.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 7, 2014 -> 10:21 AM) Yeah no thanks. Deng should get a chance to compete for a title and the Bulls arent it for awhile. If the Bulls could clear Noah or Gibson off in exchange for an expiring, perhaps even while adding a draft pick somewhere, and put themselves in a position to offer a max deal while also signing Mirotic this offseason, and they hired our lord and savior Jesus Christ as their athletic trainer and had him rub DRose's knees up after every game, that "a while" could turn around really fast.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jan 7, 2014 -> 10:05 AM) Ron Karkovice had a career batting average of .221. Yes that is comparable to the Flowers and Phegleys. If you think comparing these two players to Karkovice is an insult, how on Earth do you think they will improve in year two?? Yikes. Karkovice may have been a great battery mate and solid defender, but his bat was brutal- just like Flowers and Phegley The Sox can always address the FA market for an additional SP if they choose to trade Q. There are options still at this point in the offseason. Flowers had about an 8 year stretch where he got his OPS into the high .600's despite that batting average. If either of Phlowgleito could do that, they may not set the world on fire, you might still look to upgrade that position, but it would no longer be an emergency upgrade and you could be content with that when guys are earning the league minimum or close to it. The average OPS from the catcher's spot around the bigs last year was .696.

Very sad that so many people don't have a "wait a second" reflex.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 7, 2014 -> 09:43 AM) You are probably correct. And definitely are correct with the future offender thing. I think the teams not in the luxury tax split the offenders' tax, but the point is, the Bulls really don't need the money, although $15-20 million is a pretty significant amount. They are one of the most profitable franchises in sports. So while this is a salary dump, and makes a lot of sense, the Bulls don't want to characterize it as one. If they were only offering Deng $10 million a year, they obviously weren't going to keep him. Obviously this team has another hole now. Gar/Pax have their work cut out for them. And while this move may make it easier to make the lottery, they would still have to get lucky, and they still have to get the correct free agent, and they still have to draft the correct players, and they still have to get Morotic signed, and Rose has to come back healthy and stay that way, and Gar/Pax is still making the decisions. There is still a lot to be wary. It is going to be funny to read what Reggie...oh I mean the "Rose camp" has to say about this one. He probably will be complaining about them breaking up the core he complained wasn't good enough earlier. If Gar/Pax are making the decisions and in this case they clearly made the right one and in this case they broke their classic "stand pat" mode to do it, that ought to give us m ore confidence in them. And while yes, they don't need the money...the team clearly has issues with going over the luxury tax and particularly with paying it multiple years. This deal makes it vastly more palatable for them to go over the Tax the next 2 years because the penalty will be much lower. And finally...yes they have another hole...but that was a hole they were looking to have this offseason anyway. That's just the reality...they either were going to have to move some money off somewhere or they were likely to lose Deng. Hell, if they were to move some additional money (I still say Gibson is a very poor fit for the roster right now, and Noah as well), then Deng could be an offseason target once Lebron re-ups with the Heat.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 7, 2014 -> 09:24 AM) The Bulls lowballed Deng and got lottery ticket draft picks in order for Gar/Pax to be able to say with a straight face this wasn't a salary dump and they aren't tanking this season, that this was a "basketball decision". Anyone could tell you it's a salary dump and a move to try to get into the lottery. None of these draft picks will probably ever turn into as good of player as Deng, the Bulls most likely won't be picking in the top 5 of the next draft, and the Bulls probably aren't in desperate need of the $15 million they will be saving with this trade, but they had to do it. I reads that it's closer to $20 million they'll save directly with this trade, and if it also gets them below the tax threshold this year there could be huge future benefits because they won't be a multi-year offender next season.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 7, 2014 -> 09:08 AM) Wow, they did it. I can't believe they actually did it! I can't believe Cleveland didn't send him to the Lakers.

Not player movement but no other catch-all.

That's what she said.

QUOTE (daa84 @ Jan 7, 2014 -> 08:47 AM) As some said, the best part about this trade is that it helps us get into lottery. Those picks are relatively worthless. The two Portland picks will be picks in the 50s (might as well be undrafted FAs). The Sacramento pick we won't get this year, and likely not next year. Swapping cle pick will likely not happen or will be 3-4 spots max That said money is saved, and lottery potential increased this year so it's a win I think you're underestimating the value of pretty much everything the Bulls got back. The 2nd round picks are really useful currency and hugely important in filling out the bench on a veteran loaded or expensive team, and they're also a lottery ticket in the sense that some of them turn out to be solid contributors. I'd rather have 2nd round picks fill out the bench than guys who are more expensive and in their mid 30's. The pick swap, yeah the value of that may not be stellar, but if the Bulls come together and the Cavs don't, then we could be talking about a swap that's much larger than 3-4 spots. If the Cavs sign Lebron that makes it meaningless, but if this Cavs team hangs around in the teens and the Bulls get back into the 20's, that's a big jump. And the Sacto pick...I really don't care when we get it. It's now a major asset in the next couple years that can be traded. My one worry with it would be that Sacto could stay in the top 10 through 2017 and only have to give up a 2nd rounder, which might well be why Cleveland was willing to move it.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Jan 7, 2014 -> 01:18 AM) No, I wouldn't. I'm just telling you they certainly have the pieces to get a trade done, they just don't have the flexibility and depth to live with that kind of trade. That's an incredibly succinct, well stated summary of how I feel about this concept. Well done.

QUOTE (GoodAsGould @ Jan 7, 2014 -> 01:25 AM) Why not just amnesty boozer now if they clearly are tanking this season now? Can't the amnesty only be done in the offseason? They could "waive" boozer now but they'd still be on the hook for the remainder of his deal.

Now that will require even more fire.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jan 6, 2014 -> 06:29 PM) Lots of great stuff for Glavine, obviously -- his greatest accomplishments IMO are related to his longevity. Was he definitely better than both of those other guys? I'm not so sure. I don't mean to say that these things I listed are all great ways to measure success, but these can be used as other things with which to weigh for and against HOF status. Signs of dominance, if you will, since an unspoken part of being an HOFer seems to be that you must be one of the very best in the game at some point in time One thing from your numbers to note though is winning the cy young twice. That means that there was a 6 year-ish stretch where Glavine was one of the top 6 pitchers and 2 years where he sat at the very top. Neither of the other guys were described by you as having won the CY award. That's a big deal. So it's not just the longevity, he's got 2 things going for him...an incredible peak combined with a degree of longevity equal to the other guys, if not in some sense greater (more AS appearances, for example).

Let them set something on fire. It'll help everything.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 6, 2014 -> 06:25 PM) We also used to pour hot water on the engine block when in the UP. Not sure it did anything. My hot water in my kitchen froze today but thats the only water that isnt working. Really weird. Kitchen sinks are often on outer edges of the house and divided from the rest of the house by cabinet doors that keep ambient heat out, so they are often the most likely to freeze.

Just kidding?

Did we start keeping score?

QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Jan 6, 2014 -> 04:42 PM) This is exactly what I'm talking about. The general population of the USA has this blend of gluttony, fundamentalism and stupidity that will make this much more common once the threat of bankruptcy dissapears as a natural barrier to this kind of s***. A large majority of the United States population currently has health insurance that would cover large portions of these costs in exactly the same way and yet, as I said, it's not commonplace. Maybe the U.S. population deserves a little bit more credit than you give them.

But zoo does start with a z.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 6, 2014 -> 04:33 PM) From that list, I like the idea of Martin on a 2-3 year deal. But we're talking about Castro now, so it's quite likely that there will be other names that become available too. And if pitchers from the minors step up this year...we could be in a much better position to continue trading pitching next offseason than we are right now. We might also have a better idea of whether we have extra moveable guys in the infield.

Xeric air outside.