Balta1701

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 08:11 AM) Isn't there an out here? Yankees agree to pay A-Rod half of the $86M left on his contract, A-Rod agrees to leave MLB and never come back, but does not have to admit to any PED use. Seems easier than the year or longer court battle this is headed for. So ARod is out $43 million when he might have a decent shot at the full $86 million if he just fights the legal case?

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 10:11 PM) You think Reed is worth Chafin and Trahan? I don't. And I doubt Arizona would. Then we can talk about trading him in 2 years.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 07:23 AM) With the signing of our next superstar, Abreu, having both Konerko and Dunn makes no sense. If Abreu proves in ST that he is the real deal, release Dunn and eat his salary. They'll have to eat it one way or the other. I realized one thing a bit ago... If the Sox are forced to release Dunn, or forced to trade Dunn, or forced to trade/release Keppinger to make this signing work (and it seems difficult to avoid)....the "True cost to own" of Paul Konerko in 2013 is not $2.5 million, it's $2.5 million+ whatever they have to eat on that deal to make their roster make sense. If they have to pay an extra 1/2 of Dunn or Keppinger's contract...then the cost of signing Konerko this season is $7.5-$10 million just to make the roster work.

QUOTE (CWSpalehoseCWS @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 05:26 PM) I don't know if having Konerko on the team really sets the bench. Beckham could probably play a few games at SS in a pinch. Alexei rarely if ever needs a day off. So a bench or Danks, Flowers/Phegley, Keppinger, and Konerko could work too. Alexei had zero days off last year until August because Beckham is not playing short.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 06:38 PM) If JDA never hits, and Paulie Eeyore's his way to a Memorial Day retirement, I will at least acknowledge the benefit of these offseason moves if I never have to see the bolded ever again. I hope it was just a fluke that he hit better while playing the field - the compromise is virtually never worth it in his case. If JDA never hits the answer is to keep playing him. Yet somehow I don't see that happening.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 05:58 PM) I think the A's should have taken that. Cespedes is a decent OF, but hasn't churned out a 3 WAR season yet, and only has 2 years left of team control. Skaggs, Pollock, and whatever other minor leaguers still have 5-6 years of team control left and don't cost a dime. Cespedes is providing surplus value over his contract, but not enough to pass on 2 very good prospects + more. I thought he had 3 more years of team control? Didn't he sign a 5 year deal? Otherwise you're making a good case, but for once we might be able to say Oakland is in "win-now" mode.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 04:23 PM) More importantly, who in their right mind would trade him, knowing you have to send money and get basically nothing back? He was one of the couple best hitters on the team, and you don't want Paulie getting 600 AB. He doesn't even want that. We've got 4 choices. Trade Dunn and get nothing back. Trade Keppinger and get nothing back Have either no backup OF or no backup SS on the roster. A 6 man bullpen. Take your pick. I don't like any of those, but we have to chose one of them.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 04:21 PM) That's about the only one I can think of too, and it's debateable to as whether or not he's even been worth it. It depends on how you define "Worth it". I don't see the Red Sox giving back the 2 world series trophies they won with Manroid Ramiroid on their roster, and I don't see the Yankees giving back the trophy they won with ARoid, Texeira, and Captain Cheeseburger on their roster. I think those world series titles probably generated enough revenue for those teams to more than offset the costs associated with the years at the end of those contracts.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 03:11 PM) Konerko: I've played with some guys who were great at this (role). Mark Kotsay. Jim Thome. Jim Thome never got fewer than 400 PA's with the White Sox. Mark Kotsay got 360 PA's in 2010.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 02:26 PM) He did not. I don't know why he would. If he's hitting there's a good chance he winds up on a contending team as soon as July.

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 02:21 PM) Basically what Balta is falling into here are several "appeals to probability." -- Because this move can mess up the 25-man roster, thus: it has messed up the 25-man roster. -- Because this move can mess up a potentially existing Dunn trade, thus: it has messed up a Dunn trade. The fact that we dont know the roster yet, and .....the fact that we have no rumors even of teams badly wanting Dunn... make this all Bad Logic. I'd also add that I have zero trust in this team's ability to use young players effectively or in ways that are best for their development. If you leave this staff an obvious way to screw with a young player, they'll do it. This organization is extremely consistent in that regard.

QUOTE (Tex @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 02:22 PM) Are you finally going to be able to trade Dunn? The odds of trading either one is low. The only chance is if one is playing at a very high level. I'd rather bet on either/or than Dunn only. And Sox fans wouldn't mind seeing Konerko head off to a contender at the trade deadline if the team is out of contention. Assuming the team is out of contention...yes, if this deal didn't happen, I think they'd finally move Dunn at the deadline, probably saving a couple million dollars on the deal.

QUOTE (Tex @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 02:13 PM) So keep playing Dunn, no matter what, hoping he can be traded. Why not just play the hot bat and trade that one? Are you going to trade Paul Konerko mid-season in a "farewell year"? That only works if you drop the names. On top of that...he has full no-trade protection as a 10-5 player. The only way he gets off the roster is the disabled list.

QUOTE (Tex @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 02:08 PM) Exactly. And doesn't Paulie just have to outplay Dunn for more playing time? With both their histories, it could happen. That'd be equally silly. Dunn got off to a terrible start for the first month last year then found a groove in May when he started swinging for the fences again. He was homering enough that you could conceivably see a team being willing to take on part of his contract at the deadline. He didn't hit well enough to make it worth it for the Sox to take the loss on his contract yet...but he was getting closer. Do that this year...Konerko takes Dunn's at bats starting in late April, and there goes any chance we had of trading him because he's now consigned to the bench while the Captain gets the at bats he deserves.

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 02:06 PM) I guess I see your point, but the day we need leverage again you just put Robin V. on a mic to someone stating that Dunn is in the running for the LF job. Leverage reborn. And if we say Konerko is the primary backup for Alexei the remaining GM's around the league will believe that too right? Heck, we may as well use Dunn as the primary backup OF just for comedy. It'd be a fitting tribute to this signing.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 02:03 PM) Don't get me wrong -- I don't think this is a good move. I'm just saying that it might not be as big a deal as it seems now. Looking at 25 man roster configurations, for example, is a futile exercise on Dec 4th. We're now stuck between one bad decision, selling low on a guy paid decently in order to clear a roster spot, or going into the season with a poorly set up bench. Neither of these are nice options.

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 02:01 PM) Surely last year we were going to do everything we were going to do with every bargaining chip on a salary. If there were no deals to be had for Dunn and Alexei back then....that were wildly good for us........then I'm not under the impression that landscape was going to change wildly now. It may be PK, a catcher.... another tweak (Bacon?)...and we're done. No, last year we could have waited on these guys to see if an improved deal would come along. We weren't forced to move the guys, at the worst they were dead losses. Frankly, it was starting to look like the market for Dunn could actually improve if we didn't show everyone our cards already.

QUOTE (Tex @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 02:00 PM) You lost me. Doesn't this take some pressure off Abreu? He doesn't have to be rushed into playing 150 games? The only way to learn to hit big league pitching is to face big league pitching at some point. He's not going to learn that on the bench.

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 01:58 PM) Hah. Lets hope Alexei still does. If he plays too many days in a row, he'll be insulted/angered and may try to retire & re-enter Cuba Hahahahaha you funny.

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 01:57 PM) ...so let Abreu get what he gets out of the mentoring. Does Paul Konerko speak spanish?

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 01:55 PM) Fortunately, the guys we need to move are all bad players whose contracts need to be dumped anyway. And now that everyone knows the White Sox have themselves a mess of a roster, they can drop anything they'd have been willing to offer. If you're playing cards and you reveal your cards to everyone else when they don't have to...that sort of hurts your ability to bet.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 01:53 PM) Let's wait and see what other moves the Sox make before concluding that this is a disaster. Remember, we haven't even hit the Winter meetings yet. There's plenty of time to clear these logjams and plenty of reasons to do so. And now we're in a position where any team we're negotiating with has the upper hand because they know the White Sox have foolishly created a logjam.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 01:50 PM) Instead of continuing to make things up, why don't you read Paulie's comments and Hahn's comments. There is nothing to suggest now or in the past, that Paulie will make anyone uncomfortable. Part of his job is to help Abreu get MORE comfortable. Then let me say this as clearly as I can. I have every confidence in this organization completely screwing that up. It's what they do. This whole site complains about the organization failing to develop position players and the way they treat guys fits that to a T. They rush them upwards through the minors, not giving them enough time to struggle or learn how to get through difficulties, then they get to the big leagues early, are expected to produce rapidly, and then lose their spots if they don't. This signing fits that mold perfectly. It's the Sox way of treating their talent to the letter.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 01:33 PM) Could you imagine if he were actually honest about this: "Yeah, the Marlins offered me the most money, plus I get to live in really nice weather for a while, and then probably get traded to a contender who would never have offered me this much money now." Very good point. For this contract...if he hits in 2014 like he did in 2013 he'll be very easily tradeable.

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 01:45 PM) I don't, if you clearly read what I wrote, i said "understood." That said, at DH if we decided that Dunn isnt enough, but that PK+Dunn may be better....then that sounds good to me. Because it costs little. Meanwhile, Alexei playing a ton is something we are pretty much all aware will be happening, one way or another. This is the positional guy on our team most likely to cause a Win But of course...the guy who really should be playing every day at 1b, Abreu, now has a RH hitting veteran backup in a position to make things very awkward if he's not in the lineup often enough.