Balta1701

QUOTE (Jake @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 08:57 PM) He was nearing FA years, which is still going to be a big problem for them -- when Scherzer, AJax, Miggy, etc. all hit FA So the answer is to hurt their team next year?

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 07:25 PM) 100% agree with everything you've said in this thread. Headley has value and won't come cheap, but we're talking about one year of a very good 3B at slightly below market rate and likely a 1st/2nd round pick. Teams won't be trading an established major league starter with 5 years of team control for him. GMs simply aren't as stupid as they used to be (Dayton Moore notwithstanding). Cost controlled talent is valued at an all-time right now. Then the Padres won't trade him. If they can't get something like that, they will hold him to the deadline and see if he has a big first half in a contract year or just take the draft pick next offseason.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 03:14 PM) FWIW, I think the media overstates Headley's value at this point. The reality is that it was super high after his 2012 in a market starved for 3B talent, but a down year later, Headley looks like a less productive player with just a year left until FA. His price, of course, will come down to how many teams are bidding. I think the WS could put a package together that would get the Padres to accept WITHOUT including Quintana/Garcia, it's just unlikely that some other team won't offer something better. Even coming down from his 2012 campaign, he's still a solid player. In the fangraphs world he's a regular 3+ WAR player every year. He's a guy who a reasonable contract could be 5/$80 or more if he's on the FA market. For a team looking to compete next year with a hole at 3b, he makes a ton of sense.

QUOTE (midway @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 02:52 PM) On MLBtraderumors.com the Padres were said to be looking for a LH bat/ and or a reliever. What would the Sox send them? When I 1st saw that I damn near jumped out my seat praying they would take Dunn...I know, it's just a dream!!! If they want a LH bat, the White Sox have nothing to send them. We don't have any LH hitting talent at the minor league levels. Adam Dunn is a negative value player. De Aza is the only LH hitting bat we have of any sort.

QUOTE (woods of ypres @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 01:53 PM) What was Getz' problem in KC? Did he just never stay healthy? 2009, and 2011 he played over 100 games and had numbers better than Beckham. (other than 2009 anyway) http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playe...amp;position=2B He's never been that good and he hasn't played like a starting MLB 2nd baseman. He's at the point where his salary would start going up from arbitration and there's no reason to pay him more money to be a below-average 2b. You can call up 27 year olds from the minors to do that for minimum salary. That he's had better numbers than Beckham is an indictment of Beckham more than anything, it shows how bad Beckham has been.

QUOTE (Tex @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 01:49 PM) Like they say, only criminals will have guns. Good thing that we are tough on criminals. Possessing an illegal gun = you get a sternly worded letter. Yup, that's tough on people breaking the law.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 01:45 PM) They can want Quintana all they want, but I don't think there is a snowball's chance in hell the Sox would give him up for one year of Headley. I would love to see Headley on this team, but if they're giving up anything significant I would like to see one of those 24 hours to extend him contigency type deals. He's worth vastly more to a team like say, the Red Sox, who are weak at 3b and have a team ready to compete right now, than he is to the White Sox. Just as an example. Although the White Sox are obviously not going to want to give up a Quintana-type player, something like that is his value to a team which wants to compete right now. Maybe a little lower in the system perhaps, but still.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 10:04 AM) It wasn't the Sox who turned the deal down. But it was definitely Kenny's fault.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 1, 2013 -> 08:00 PM) You're right, Balta. He and Axelrod may as well be twin brothers. And he was the number one prospect. He's another Verlander right now. Gmab. I outline all that and that's the best you've got?

Non-displaced hand fracture for Anthony Davis.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 1, 2013 -> 06:38 PM) He pitched great in 2009 and then the first half of 2010 he was incredible...I can't remember what ultimately derailed him, but it was much better than a bunch of good games in a row and much better than this Axelrod example. To compare him to Dylan is a joke to begin with. Hughes was the best prospect in baseball at one time. Hughes was great out of the bullpen in 2009, bad out of the rotation. 1.40 ERA in the bullpen, 5.45 ERA in 7 starts. In 2010 he put up an ERA of 3.65 in the first half. That's pretty far from incredible...and it's pretty much dominated by 6 good starts to open the season. From May 17 through the AS break he put up an ERA over 5. He went 8-2 in that stretch because Yankees. He had 6 stellar starts to open that year, put up a 1.38 ERA over that stretch, and then immediately went to being mediocre. Basically he did a "Gavin Floyd" that season - had an average year and then made his numbers look better thanks to a short streak of being incredible. He actually didn't last a full 7 innings once in the entire 2nd half that year. Whether or not he was the best prospect in baseball...Even his best season is only slightly better than iffy. I'd say that bringing up his prospect status after more than half a decade of not being a prospect is quite a bit worse of a joke than comparing him to Axelrod.

QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Dec 1, 2013 -> 02:42 PM) So assuming he gets in (he should) Im gonna request a couple days off in Cooperstown NY and go to the ceremony. Any other STers making the trip? Might have a shot, depends on how the job search goes this year.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 1, 2013 -> 02:37 PM) You guys do have to admit that Hughes offers a high reward...he's been bad for awhile but he's also been dominant at times... I mean, lots of guys can string together "a bunch of good games in a row". Through his first 11 starts last year, Dylan Axelrod had a 3.73 ERA, .704 OPS against him, and .275 BABIP (so not obviously due to collapse bases on luck). When I look at Hughes's numbers, he was really good out of the bullpen in 2009 but aside from that he's been average in a couple years (2010, 2012) and pretty rotten in a couple years (2011, 2013). That's not "dominant at times" in my book, when he puts up an average season his total looks pretty good because he's had those Yankee offenses turning average performances into wins. In his best seasons he's a lot like "average gavin floyd". one big difference though is that aside from "torn up elbow last year" floyd has never put up full seasons anywhere near as bad as Hughes's down years. If they can get a couple of his good years out of him, they'll get good value out of his contract, and if somehow they have a pitching coach who can turn him around there's some upside there, but it looks to me like he's a guy who can fill space at the back of a rotation.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Nov 30, 2013 -> 07:02 PM) So start cheering for the bobcats? The pick improves every year. If you really want an extra pick this year sure, but if Charlotte continues being terrible the protection moves higher and higher. That's why everyone has targeted 2016, because that pick is unprotected in 2016. If Charlotte is at the top of the draft the next couple years that pick could be a top pick in the 2016 class.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Nov 30, 2013 -> 06:59 PM) ok, this bobcats pick is pissing me off. I just read that for this year if charlotte's pick is outside the top ten that the bulls get it? Yes

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Nov 30, 2013 -> 05:44 PM) Hate to be THAT guy but there is a lot of talk of an '08 team that won 1 playoff game and then failed the following year. That should hardly be the team we are trying to emulate If the MVP candidate hadn't broken his own hand in late 08 and hadn't then lost pretty much the full 09 season with Plantar fasciitis...we're talking about a totally different history for this team. That's one I'll legitimately chalk up to injury - yeah, we were able to get him in the first place because of injury, but that's a solid model for how rapidly this franchise, even with a weak system, has successfully retooled rapidly before. And I'm hoping we already signed a comparable guy this offseason. Maybe with a better health record.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 30, 2013 -> 05:36 PM) That 08 team also led the ML in HR's by 21 over the next best HR hitting team ( Phillies) and 35 for the next best AL team ( Detroit). Let's get 90 from Abreu and Viciedo next year and we'll pull that off with ease.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 30, 2013 -> 05:17 PM) You covered some of what I'd research. But I'd also look at how many roster spots turned over and at what cost. and who had career years , who regresed etc. If you're expecting Abreu to be the 2014 Quentin the main difference is Quentin's didn't cost the Sox $17 in the 1st year they got him. But I understand your point , it's just too much of a reach for me to consider it seriously with basically the same roster like you suggested. The other big roster change was Alexei taking over 2b and Uribe moving from 2b to 3b. In fact, 3b got somewhat worse with the bats because 2007 was Josh Fields's one good season. They brought in Nick Swisher with the goal of having him take over CF but that was such a disaster that Wise and Griffey wound up taking over the position for significant portions of the season. They also traded Jon Garland for Orlando Cabrera to fill their SS spot, he was the leadoff hitter for much of the year in 08 but he was basically just tolerable, .705 OPS and .334 OBP out of the leadoff spot isn't that great. The other thing that made a big difference was that Floyd and Danks were rookie pitchers in 2007, struggling or in the minors for much of the year, and they pitched like really good big league starters in 2008. We also spent some money on the bullpen in 2008 to bring in Linebrink and Dotel, they were useful pieces as well. The things that made a difference were...getting the pitching staff infused with Floyd and Danks (biggest improvement), adding 2 real key bats in Quentin and Alexei, getting a few guys back towards their career norms (Buehrle), and basically getting rid of the black holes that did nothing. They still weren't that great on defense or baserunning in 08, but they had solid pitching and adding that MVP quality bat in the middle of their lineup did wonders. I'm really hoping we just added that MVP caliber bat to our order. And frankly, yeah I'll be disappointed if he's not somewhere close to that.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 30, 2013 -> 04:48 PM) The Sox were terrible in every aspect of the game last year except pitching. Defense , hitting, fundamentals ,base running , on base percentage, the bench and leadership all crumbled. That's just way too much to fix . I can't really comment on 2008 because I'd have to do a ton of reseach on 2007 and 2008 and see where the Sox were in relation to the rest of the division. The Royals , Indians and Tigers are all looking strong now. Maybe if Viciedo can pull an MVP type season out of his ass like Quentin did it's possible if we can get some good glove guys and OBP guys somehow. The 07 white sox put up the fewest runs in the league, worst OBP in the league, worst sb% age in the league, 12th in ERA out of 14 teams, and 12th in errors out of 14 teams. It's actually kind of remarkable with how bad that 07 team performed that the '13 team lost more games than them. The 2007 Sox were terrible in every aspect of the game, including pitching. Every aspect of the game you mentioned. In 07, Cleveland went to the ALCS and barely were beaten by the Red Sox, the Tigers were a year removed from a world series birth, and the Twins had solid 06 and 08 campaigns at the bookends. The Tigers, Indians, and Twins could all be called strong competitors - it literally came down to the last day of the season the next year. It wasn't the AL East but that was a solid division with a number of legit, evenly-matched competitors. And the White sox became one of those competitors in 1 season after being incredibly bad in 07. Andy Gonzalez as a starting IF bad.

QUOTE (Baron @ Nov 30, 2013 -> 04:14 PM) Good just release him A decent backup catcher can be really useful for a lot of teams. That strikes me as quite silly; he's already established he can be a decent backup catcher if he's healthy. That may not mean he's a starter, that may mean we should be trying to swap him for someone who hits LH. But man, you don't just release people who do have some talent because you're frustrated with them unless there's someone pushing to replace them.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 30, 2013 -> 04:33 PM) You and Balta think much like me as far as trying to compete for 2014 but I think we know in our hearts that it's not likely to happen. About the only thing I can say for what I really want to see happen besides what you outlined is that a strong defensive CF is a must. I think that kind of player sets the tone for the whole team defensively. I know thats probably not backed up statistically in any way, just my basic baseball instincts about being strong defensively up the middle, especially CF. We also need a few guys who don't view OBP as a disease and more lefthanded hitters. I came into this offseason saying "Hahn needs 1 piece to have a team I can say can compete if everything goes right and that's Abreu". He nailed that one. Our weakest position by far last year was 1b; we expected it to carry us, we paid it to carry us, and it was one of the worst in baseball. Beyond that...we have a couple positions that could hurt us. Catcher is the big worry...but I still say I have no clue what we have there. If the scouts say it won't get better then something needs to be done...but I'd also be surprised if they said that given how they were willing to push guys upwards last year. This team could compete if everything goes right as it is. Catcher is my next worry on the list, but that one I can't make the call because I don't know what Hahn has been told by his guys.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Nov 30, 2013 -> 04:01 PM) So we have an Ace, a #2 and a couple of good options for the back of the rotation. Along with a closer in the bullpen. Then we probably have a strong middle of the order type and maybe a good RF who could 5-6 in the order. Not a ton of talent in any way. You know what though? The setup you just outlined isn't far at all from a team that can challenge for the wild card. That's a core stronger than the one Cleveland brought to the table last year...they just supplemented it with a couple FA' signings and a few guys who gave them decent numbers at positions of weakness. And they weren't the most unfocused team in baseball. That's important too. A couple of those other positions like SS, maybe CF, are filled with veteran guys who are a little more expensive but who will contribute at least decent performances even if they don't carry the team. If the Sox could get the kind of production out of their LF that he was paid for when he signed so many years ago...all of a sudden you've got a really solidly built team...if they can remember how to pay attention.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 30, 2013 -> 03:50 PM) That's the exception rather than the rule. Sure I have hope they can do that again but realistically I'm looking to get to a place to improve from. Improve this year 15-20 games this year and 15 20 games for 2015 and you're competing for the division by 2015 barring any catastrophic injuries to key pieces. Otherwise who knows how long we're looking at. Right now we're looking at so much that needs to go right that I can't even imagine getting a playoff spot next year. If someone can explain to me what it was mentally that took that team from the most consistent, reliable defense in the league in 2012 to the least consistent, most unreliable defense in the league in 2013 I could then imagine them being right back to competitive with the roster they have now. They have talent through the lineup and guys who could contribute. They are really loaded on pitching and that could overcome even some struggles from the offense. But seriously, what the heck happened to this team's focus? In 2012 they were right on for 5 months. In 2013 they were...Ooh look a squirrel!

QUOTE (Jake @ Nov 30, 2013 -> 03:30 PM) It won't blow my mind if Abreu posts a sub-.800 OPS, but that is by no means my expectation. Even if it does happen, I would expect that it be weighed down by a very slow start that he rallies back from It wouldn't "blow my mind" either, but the word I used was "disappointed" and I'd stand by that.