Balta1701

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Nov 17, 2013 -> 05:46 PM) so why waste my time mentioning it? Why did you float a 4/$54 deal that would be a clear underpay for the guy as justification for why we should trade for him? It's just as much of a fantasy at 5/$15, but for some reason you floated that to say "hey, we could afford to trade for him and sign him to this deal". Why waste our time mentioning a fantasy deal he wouldn't take as a reason to trade for him?

Into Gould range in these conditions?

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Nov 17, 2013 -> 05:31 PM) I would try to get a deal done without Addison Reed, but if it was just Reed for Headley straight up, I'd do that in a heartbeat. As for a contract, I'd offer him something like 4 yrs/$54. I think he should be worth easily 3+ for the next few seasons. As for how you would only give him $3M a year, that's just ridiculous. Are we looking at the same person? Do you honestly think Headley can't even put up 1 WAR a season? No wonder you're disagreeing here, you're not bothering to read my words. I said I'd happily give up Reed for him if we were getting him for $3 million a year, but since we're not going to do so, it makes no sense to give up a guy like Reed for him. I seriously doubt he'd be signable for 4/$54 right now. That'd be a substantial bargain based on the current FA market and I don't know why he'd sign that. Even the numbers you're using to imagine why he'd be a good acquisition aren't realistic and require him to give a substantial discount. The White Sox are in a position where guys on 1 year deals make no sense for them because the odds are they won't have a competitive team next year. They need to look for guys that are under control long term or guys they don't have to give up a lot to get. Chase Headley is neither of those. To make sense, Headley needs to be available for a very small trade price or willing to sign a below-market extension. Neither of these are likely to happen. It's crazy for the White Sox to pay fair price for guys who are on 1 year deals. A team who could compete next year would get vastly more use out of a guy like Headley right now and should be willing to pay a much higher price.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Nov 17, 2013 -> 04:55 PM) Why again are we under the impression that Headley is going to be expensive, expensive enough that it would handcuff this team from making other moves? You just said Headley is worth something like Tyler Flowers, so how do you then say immediately after that he is going to be a big contract? I mean...isn't he TOO OLD and ONLY WORTH TYLER FLOWERS? How does that translate to a huge FA deal? I mean sure, he will cost more than any 3B we currently have, but again, people are completely willing to throw $15M a year at a slightly older Brian McCann who had produced a 1.7 and 2.7 WARs the past couple years, but won't throw $10-12M at a slightly young Headley who produced a 7.2 and 3.6 WARs the past couple years. He's worth $10 million a year + Tyler Flowers. I'd happily give up Addison Reed for him if we could get him extended to a 5 year, $15 million (total) deal. That's not going to happen. He's 1 year from Free Agency. If you want to extend him, you're paying fair price for him as a free agent. That's going to be close to a $15 million a year deal given the current market. Probably for a 5 year+ deal. Would you be prepared to give up Addison Reed and sign Chase Headley to a 5/$75 deal right now? I sure am not. Heck, if we still have a 3b hole next offseason we could just sign him then for basically the same contract and have "more" talent on the roster. Since people are saying we need more talent, that seems like the way to have the most talent if they're going after him.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 17, 2013 -> 03:57 PM) Wow...first off, Headley is 29 years old, but second, I know your new thing is that all players start declining at 30 which is completely ridiculous. Third, as much as you want to hype up the Gillaspie/Keppinger platoon, Headley would be a significant upgrade in all aspects of the game and would add much needed balance to our lineup. Fourth, Reed is a f***ing reliever and relievers are very replaceable. Fifth, Reed will be cheap next year, but let's not pretend he won't be hitting arbitration thereafter. Sixth and most importantly, I don't care who provides more surplus value, we desperately need to add talent if we want to be competitive in the near future. Since we don't have a great farm system, that means we'll have to do it through free agency and the trade market. That means giving up money and/or talent to fill major weaknesses. I'm sorry, but they don't award the team with the most surplus value a World Series trophy. This all comes down to production and Headley is a f***ton more productive than Addison f***ing Reed. Again, if you can trade for Headley AND lock him up like I originally said, then you do it in a heartbeat. You're right we really need to add talent. That's why we shouldnt' have tons of money tied up in guys like Chase Headley. That's why we shouldn't be trading the young, talented guys we have for expensive guys whose salaries would prevent us from adding talent elsewhere. We were able to sign Abreu because we didn't have bad money locked up in guys like Chase Headley.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Nov 17, 2013 -> 03:42 PM) Besides disagreeing with most of your comment, what exactly does "wrong side of 30" mean? What is considered the "right side of 30". Because Chase is 29 right now and will be 29 when the season starts, so I'm not sure I understand the phrase. Ok, he's 29 and I missed by 1 year. Point remains. He's a terrible fit for the White Sox and I wouldn't give up anything for him that would produce more than 1 WAR beyond what that guy is paid. That means literally no one worth anything more than a backup. I'd give up a guy like Tyler Flowers for him. That's it.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Nov 17, 2013 -> 03:01 PM) As far as Dunn goes, he's not very good and he's expensive. I'll take my chances that they'll be a better team without Dunn than with him. He's still expensive even if you try to get rid of him. Saying "he's expensive" is silly when by almost every account you'd have to pay for him whether he's there or not. Last year they were different from every other team by having the worst 1b in the game and the worst defense and worst focus I've ever seen. They have hopefully at least fixed one of those problems. If they could fix the other, they at least could say "maybe we can compete".

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 17, 2013 -> 03:19 PM) I'd trade Reed plus a prospect for him in a heartbeat if I could lock him up to an extension. Not sure why everyone is so down on Headley. He's still one of the better 3B in baseball. He's on the wrong side of 30 and he's already going to make $10 million+ next year. Addison Reed will still make a whopping $500k next year. If we assume 1 WAR ~ $5 million, headley right now is about a 3 WAR player if he doesn't decline some next year. Reed is about a 1 WAR reliever. Headley could put up $5 million more than he's worth next year, Reed could put up $5 million more than he's worth next year. For 1 year, that might be a fair deal...problem is, Reed is under team control at a limited cost for 4 years, Headley is under team control for 1 year. So for Headley, you're trading for him, probably committing $40 million+ to him, and you're giving up a guy who will outperform what he's paid for the next 3 years. Reed alone is a monstrous overpay for Headley. Ditto Semien. Ditto every other prospect you can think of who has a chance to contribute to the major league roster. Headley isn't a bad player but he's going to be fairly paid. You don't give up guys who are underpaid for guys who are fairly paid unless you're desperate to compete right now. It's a terrible idea for the white sox...especially given that they're gutting their payroll this year.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 17, 2013 -> 02:52 PM) Paulie will still want 7 mill or so I'd bet. then please let him retire. I'll take $500k to be just about as effective.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Nov 17, 2013 -> 02:47 PM) You have the Sox contending in 2014? With Abreu in the fold, they can put a roster out there where they can legitimately say "if everything goes right this roster can compete". If they sign Paul Konerko, and especially if they dump Dunn to clear a spot for him, that's a move saying they aren't even going to try to field a competitive roster.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Nov 17, 2013 -> 01:58 PM) They can bring Konerko back if they can move Dunn. If they can't,they just can't. This continues to be a great way to make the 2014 white sox a worse team.

QUOTE (GREEDY @ Nov 17, 2013 -> 11:33 AM) Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe reports that there is "growing sentiment" that Chase Headley will be traded this offseason. What would it take? So many clubs have a need at 3B. Would Semien & Reed be enough, to get a "window" to extend him? LOL, I wouldn't give up either of those guys on their own for him.

QUOTE (Jake @ Nov 16, 2013 -> 10:39 PM) It's more that we could see Ellsbury get up into the $120M range and Cano more like $175M - whereas 12 months ago it looked like it might be more like $75M and $250M Those sound reasonable to me so I'd assume both of them will beat those numbers.

QUOTE (Jake @ Nov 16, 2013 -> 09:41 PM) I'm going to go back to my original assertion that this Indiana team isn't that f***ing good. You have Paul George, who is great, plus no guards. Hibbert is breaking out and is a great piece. I feel like West never ends up playing up to his ability on that team, for a whatever reason. Maybe I just overrate West. No depth IMO on Indiana. A resurgent Granger could make them quite a bit formidable, though, if that ever exists. Not sure how well he and George would share the floor though. The bulls have had me wondering the same thing the last couple weeks.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 16, 2013 -> 09:14 PM) I prefer to have some pop from my 3B, does Semien project to have much power? He's only 22 but the word might be "enough". 19 HR, 32 2b this season in 626 PA's. Convert that to the big leagues and maybe we're talking similar HR numbers to Gillaspie this year.

Shawn Abner.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 16, 2013 -> 08:26 PM) That might be the best thing....to scare Granderson away, since he wants to play for a winning team. "Keep paul konerko" = "the white sox are a losing team" = "the white sox don't get stuck with bad contracts for a couple years because no one wants to sign with a team determined to lose". Actually...you're making an intriguing case.

Wait, I just watched the intros, who was that last guy they introduced? Some dude from Chicago? I thought tonight's starting PG went to Kansas?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 16, 2013 -> 04:23 PM) Fine. Flowers stunk. Are you telling me if you think someone strikes out too much, in your world you are locked into liking players just because they don't strike out? No, but it'd be nice if it seemed like people would take the full package into account. I can actually understand people coming down on the negative side on De Aza, I can get that...but it's not because he struck out too much. It's because he disappointed in a number of different ways, including baserunning, fielding, mental mistakes, and reliability with the bats.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 16, 2013 -> 04:18 PM) Just because someone strikes out too much, doesn't mean you have to think a guy who rarely strikes out is good. It is not being inconsistent. The problem with the Greg bashers is you rush to criticize everything he posts before you actually think about it. Let's try this. How would you react to a person saying "I don't like Tyler Flowers. He didn't throw enough runners out last year". Seems like I'm missing a few things doesn't it?

QUOTE (Jake @ Nov 16, 2013 -> 04:14 PM) Good point. Unless the Yankees decide to go much higher than the field, it seems like Cano will get way underpaid compared to the anticipated contracts for Ellsbury and Choo If Cano's contract somehow falls into the same range as Ellsbury, absolutely count me in. Based on my standard that "no top level player on the FA market gets less than I think he will", I would be stunned if Cano wasn't a lot higher than those 2.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 16, 2013 -> 04:05 PM) I 'hate' Kepp if that's the right word because he stunk. As a fan I want to win and I feel like he was yet another black hole in our lineup. That's the problem with you though...your complaints about guys don't follow any pattern, you just decide you like some guys and don't like some guys. Your entire complaint about De Aza can't be "oh he strikes out too much" if you also think the guy who doesn't strike out as much "Stinks". Use some consistency. Everyone gets what De Aza's weaknesses last year were. Strikeouts might have been a little bit of a problem for him, but they weren't anywhere near the worst of his problems. If he struck out 25% less, he'd have been a slightly better player but he'd still have been extremely frustrating. That's why it seems nuts that your complaint about him at first was "he strikes out too much".

QUOTE (scs787 @ Nov 16, 2013 -> 02:47 PM) I think he could use some time in AAA, but if he looks good in ST and Beckham isn't, give him the 2B job. He wasn't great in AAA, wasn't good in the bigs, and he stunk it up in the AFL. I'd hate for gim to come up "too early" and have to hear people going on and on about how we rushed him. Beckham isn't going to be benched based on ST when he's making $4 million next year. He might reach that point by June.

QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Nov 16, 2013 -> 12:41 PM) No to Salty at 4yrs/36M as has been speculated. If they can get him for 4/25M, sure. Unless he suddenly pops a ligament in his elbow and needs TJ surgery, I think it's a safe assumption that there will be no bargain big name free agent signings this year.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 16, 2013 -> 10:42 AM) Having a reputation as a player friendly organization DOES have a place. There is a pretty good chance that is what kept Paul Konerko and Mark Buehrle from fleeing to greener pastures during their prime years for example. Especially in Buehrle's case, they paid no where near what other teams would have paid to get him. If it means taking a 38 year old Konerko for a year on a team that has no chance anyway, I am fine with that. But...having a record as a team with multiple 90 loss seasons in a row really hurts in keeping players/attracting new players as well. A single 90 loss team has put us in a spot where guys who might look for short term deals with competitive teams to take a last shot at a playoff run are poor fits for us.