Balta1701

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 15, 2013 -> 04:12 PM) Yeah, but at least then they could say "If we prove that Zimmerman was not in a place he was lawfully allowed to be, it cannot be self defense." Under their theory, there really wasn't any way they could possibly win. But he was lawfully allowed to be where he was. Both of them were. It's possible that his actions leading up to the shooting could have crossed the line to unlawful, but he had every right to be where he was while carrying a gun.

QUOTE (thedoctor @ Jul 15, 2013 -> 02:45 PM) for most of last year i felt that this was a strength. it was something i expected out of him before i saw him manage a game, and when it happened i felt it was truly part of what/who he is. we haven't been as sharp in that respect this year. is that his fault, or a result of poorly skilled players getting more PT than they deserve because of roster attrition/underperformance? in my mind it's somewhat of a chicken/egg conundrum. The same players have done a worse job with their fundamentals this year. Alexei, De Aza, Viciedo, Rios, Beckham all come to mind immediately as guys who simply have looked worse in terms of the basics. On top of that, the pitchers are making similar mistakes, including pitchers who were here last year as well. If it was just Keppinger booting balls at 2nd, fine, that's one thing. It's not. It's guys who hit the cutoff man last year missing them this year. It's guys who were in position last year being out of position this year.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 15, 2013 -> 03:25 PM) Ahh, you are correct...self defense is usually an affirmative defense, but if it is raised, the burden is on the prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the claim of self defense is not justified. The more and more I think about this, the less I think about the job the Prosecution did. They should have at least come at this from the angle that Zimmerman's actions prior to the altercation were not lawful. I don't think they could have proven that beyond a reasonable doubt either. Barring something like video of the shooting being found, this was a very difficult case to make.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jul 15, 2013 -> 03:16 PM) (unless he wins a SYG hearing). He doesn't need to have that. Not only has he already been found not guilty, but the judge included the SYG standard in the instructions to the jury.

QUOTE (thedoctor @ Jul 15, 2013 -> 02:14 PM) i feel like i have zero idea of what kind of manager robin is. for most of last year i thought he was a capable, albeit green manager who had a lot to learn. after the collapse i moved my opinion back to neutral. this year has been awful, but the first half was a worst-case scenario type of thing, particularly in regards to injuries and player decline. is that on robin? i don't know. it's difficult to blame him. at the same time, i'm struggling to find one thing he's done during his tenure to use as an example of him being a good manager. The sharpness of play, particularly in the field and in basic fundamental moves (hitting the cutoff man, doing rundowns correctly, people calling for the ball correctly, people in the right position when a play needs to be backed up) that we saw in 2012 was the best compliment I could give him. That team did darn near every basic baseball move correctly for 5 months.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 15, 2013 -> 01:06 PM) Yes, that's what I think...I guess I am confused because of the whole SYG thing that never really happened... Did Zimmerman's attorneys actually plead self defense as an affirmative defense? Or did they not have to do so? One thing worth noting is that the Judge's instructions to the jury basically summarize the SYG duty to retreat rules. So even if he didn't have an SYG hearing, the "Duty to retreat" standard was applied to this case.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 15, 2013 -> 01:48 PM) Correctamundo Which is why a smart GM will always, always, always make sure he gets a throw-in when he trades away a big leaguer.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 15, 2013 -> 01:43 PM) Rios hasn't hit all year with RISP but he is always 3rd in the line up and lately he takes the 1st pitch constantly and is always behind 0-1 and often 0-2. De Aza is our 2nd best HR hitter and maybe our best hitter with RISP and only hits lead off. The sad thing is we heard all last year how Robin needed to move Rios to the 3rd spot instead of Dunn because Rios was the most consistent hitter.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jul 15, 2013 -> 10:52 AM) When he fears imminent death. It's the same standard that applies to everyone. And you may or may not get a jury of your peers to agree with you. And btw, I don't agree that knocking someone down with a body blow or trying to knock them out for being followed is an appropriate response. Screaming for help, calling 911, running to the closest house, etc. are more reasonable actions. If he's in a position where you agree he is fully within his rights to call for help, run, or call 911, ten he's in a position where it's just as reasonable for him to attempt basic physical self defense. 911 is not going to bring help before this guy finds him.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jul 15, 2013 -> 10:47 AM) Why should someone with training on a gun be given less rights to defend themselves? Because the consequences of them making a mistake are "the person they shoot at is dead". They've taken an enormous responsibility upon themselves. If a person carrying a concealed weapon makes a wrong decision, someone winds up dead. I can make a mistake in a post on Soxtalk and no one dies.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jul 15, 2013 -> 10:41 AM) If there was overwhelming evidence that Zimmerman was pummeling Martin's head into the curb, and he was forced to shoot in self defense, he absolutely should walk. If you're being tailed and never physically touched, I don't think you could ever convince a jury that you feel imminent death/great bodily harm. That still doesn't answer the "what could Martin legally have done to protect himself" question? He's got an unidentified man following him. This is a threatening action by all accounts. Whether he should be running up to whatever house he can find and asking for help, screaming, or attacking the guy first, everyone has basically agreed "unidentified man following you" is a position where Martin is being threatened and has some sort of right to defend himself. If he knocked Zimmerman to the ground with a body blow, that's not an unreasonable response. If he tried to knock the guy out to give himself time to get away, that's not an unreasonable response to that situation. Shooting first without any other action would clearly be unreasonable, but at some point he'd have the right to defend himself with a gun if he had one. Is it when Zimmerman reaches for his weapon? Is it if Zimmerman throws a punch or grabs him? At what point does the kid get the right to shoot?

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 15, 2013 -> 10:37 AM) I dunno about Florida but usually people who get concealed carry permits are required to go to training on the proper use of deadly force I found courses listed on Google that satisfy the state of Florida's requirement in about 3 hours. According to other site, a permit lasts 7 years after obtained. So, a 3 hour training course every 7 years appears to be the requirement.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jul 15, 2013 -> 10:23 AM) What would the law say? Instigating fights negates self-defense, that's already law. I know in your dream world concealed carry wouldn't be legal, but that's not happening so there's no change there. So what, if you disobey 911 operators you lose your self-defense rights? Really? Is that where we want to go? Would it be possible to legislate additional responsibility upon people who do choose to carry a concealed weapon? Basically, in the case of an armed person, raise the standard for what is a "Self defense shooting" significantly? Make this type of person actually have legal consequences if they don't stop and size up the situation before taking the shot. I really have no idea how this could work, but if you won't give me "Get the gun out of his hands in the first place" as an option, then weakening his authority to shoot (the opposite of what SYG laws are doing) is about all I have left.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jul 15, 2013 -> 10:23 AM) What would the law say? Instigating fights negates self-defense, that's already law. I know in your dream world concealed carry wouldn't be legal, but that's not happening so there's no change there. So what, if you disobey 911 operators you lose your self-defense rights? Really? Is that where we want to go? No, 911 operators shouldn't get that kind of responsibility. They're people to, a 911 operator shouldn't be in a position of having to give legal advice where if something is heard improperly they could face legal liability. You'd pretty rapidly shut down 911 services if the operators had to go through legal training and faced legal repercussions for their statements. Like I said, you've hit the nail on the head. This is a case of a wannabe vigilante with a gun. People are allowed to imagine themselves being batman. People are allowed to do stupid, aggressive things, like chasing after people unwisely. That might border on illegal but it's hard to see how following a person should be illegal. The only thing that makes this case a tragedy is the presence of a gun. You can't legislate away a person fantasizing about being a hero. You can't legislate a guy's right to walk down the street, you can't legislate away the kid's right to defend himself if a guy is actually following him. This kid is collateral damage from our gun culture, just like the hundreds of other kids accidentally killed by guns every year in this country.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jul 15, 2013 -> 10:17 AM) I don't think the answer here is more statutory law. We have enough words written on paper to address the situation adequately. What we didn't have here was evidence sufficient to support a murder charge. Clearly we did not have the laws on paper to make this act illegal.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Jul 15, 2013 -> 10:14 AM) The shows the government that you speak of isn't above writing laws that will harm a person, financially...OR physically. Sorry I had to connect the dots for you. Perhaps it's high time you start thinking for yourself now. Thanks for the cheap shot. Really classy.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Jul 15, 2013 -> 10:09 AM) Well, they pretty much are. When you have a government that writes laws specifically designed to "raise revenue", which translates to "taking additional money from citizens that probably can't afford it", does it really surprise you that they'd write vague laws like this which allow something like this to happen in the first place? After they nearly collapsed the world economy and not a single person (that I know of) went to jail for it...not much surprises me about our system of laws and loopholes anymore. What in the world kind of comparison is that? "A government writes laws that increase money going into the government to pay for various things done by government. Therefore, the government should also write laws allowing random wannabe vigilantes to gun down people on the streets with impunity".

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 15, 2013 -> 10:01 AM) The Sox had the choice of the players or the manager, and it looks like they are taking the hard way and choosing the manager. Until Ventura is under contract for 2014, the option to choose "Neither" remains.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jul 15, 2013 -> 09:42 AM) Fixed. Not sure why people keep making this about Florida. The same law applies just about everywhere. Which means that the laws everywhere are f***ed up and this kind of event isn't just a unique accident of one state.

If Robin had signed that extension, I'd be annoyed at this point due to the quality of play on the field but begrudgingly accepting that he would be here for at least another year. He's not under contract? Perfect. Bring in someone else and see if they can pull the players' heads out of their tails. The guy whose job it is to do that this year has utterly failed.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 14, 2013 -> 08:27 PM) Or in today's society, you have crazy parents trying to get little Timmy medically supervised steroids so he can earn a scholarship to college and maybe go pro. There has never been any sort of science done showing that large doses of "medically supervised steroids" are somehow safe.

QUOTE (mr_genius @ Jul 14, 2013 -> 07:48 PM) the prosecution was overzealous with the 2nd degree murder charge. they should have gone with manslaughter and proved that out IMO This might well have been a good strategy. The jury seems to have had no idea what the judge's manslaughter related instructions were, and they don't seem to make sense upon reading anyway. That said, they'd still have a mountain to climb. In Florida, if a killer claims it was in self defense, the law assumes the killing was unless the state can prove otherwise. The burden of proof to establish that a killing wasn't self defense is on the state. That's a really rough case to make in this situation even for manslaughter.

‏@JoshPhegley 44m Fingers gonna be fine. Xrays were negative. Thank God for 4 days off! Ask my finger...Nate Jones throws FUEL!!!

Good summary of the first half. Decent pitching overall, offense shuts down, get a blink of hope and the guy who provided that hope gets hurt.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jul 14, 2013 -> 04:29 PM) What took them so long to bring him up? I love this reaction. "He's doing great! They must have screwed something up!"