Balta1701

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 04:05 PM) The White Sox have an MLB rotation. The cubs have a nice farm system. (Do they? I haven't been impressed by what I've seen at the upper levels of their farm system. I'd go so far as to say they have nice lower-levels in their farm system).

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 03:54 PM) I think there was a 3rd option before they went to the Nets, and that was trading for Garnett and Pierce. They're older and worn down - Garnett has like maybe 2 good years left as a starter and 3-4 overall and Pierce probably has 2-3 - but they could have made that work with Boozer and Deng while still bringing Jason Terry over too. You have a team that spreads the floor, a legit 2nd option in Pierce, a decent 3rd in Garnett, Noah down low, with Butler or Terry playing the 2. Spitballing here with what I remember from the contracts, but comparing what they could have given up, the Bulls basically would have given up Boozer, Deng, one of Butler and Mirotic, some last guy off the bench, and 3 1st rounders. Yes, it's a lot for older players, but that would have put the Bulls as a legitimate contender to win it all this year, and the problem is that, come about 2016 or 2017, you are in some sort of rebuilding mode unless you can strike lightning. I'm not saying that was the best route either - it was a possibility but obviously fell through - but it was an option. Same basic deal. If the Bulls traded Boozer and Deng for Garnett, Pierce, and Terry (and sacrificed the pick/mirotic), does anyone honestly think they go into a playoff series with the Heat as obvious favorites? Even if they have home court advantage? I don't at all.

QUOTE (Middle Buffalo @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 03:47 PM) Hawk lost his fastball a few seasons ago. I don't "hate" him, but I think it's time for him to retire. If that makes me an idiot, so be it. Whether or not I disagree, I don't hold any anger towards people who believe Hawk's time for retirement has come or even came a long time ago. All I really would like is a little bit of respect for a guy that I have spent my entire life listening to on the tele. You can say "he should have retired". Fine. Let him get the Frick award and head off into the sunset at some point.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 03:42 PM) That wasn't the point. That was considered a great return for CC, and only one of the guys panned out, and he isn't a great player. We are talking about one of the 3-5 most valuable players in baseball here, and I honestly think the only player I would surely trade him straight up for is Mike Trout. I'd have to consider Harper too, but that's 50/50 for me. I'd have harper on my list of "obviously yes" except his knee problem scared me.

QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 03:32 PM) Didn't the '94 Knicks make the Finals in Jordan's first year of retirement? If the current version of the Bulls is similar to the Knicks, then it means their route to the Finals is blocked by the most dominant player in the league. Not sure how you get beyond that... And there's the real problem. As people keep noting, even if the Bulls teamed up Rose with another star, with Durant or something ridiculous like that, the Heat still go into that series as the favorites. Everyone here knows it. You swap Deng for Durant 1 on 1 right now and the Heat still are the favorites. You swap Boozer for Love and the Heat still come in as favorites. About the only guy in the league who could have made the Bulls favorites alongside Rose is a healthy Dwight Howard and that guy hasn't been seen in several years. So what do you do if every move you could make is still unlikely to leave you as the favorites? I still think you have 2 options...you stay competitive, win 55-60 games, and take a shot at it...or you just give up, dismantle the team, and get yourself under the luxury tax every year. May as well win the games and put out an enjoyable product.

I want to reevaluate after the trade deadline. Another couple weeks of hitting would be nice...but the thing I really want to evaluate is the remnants of the team following removal of players and the financial situation.

QUOTE (whitesox901 @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 03:21 PM) I think you meant OPS+, but point taken. Correct. My bad, OPS+.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 03:15 PM) Alexi just got hurt. It seems like a nagging cramp.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 03:13 PM) + steroids, sure. Bonds pre-steroids wasn't this good. Worth noting their OPS+ numbers, which do ballpark factors and take into account the rest of the league. Frank Thomas, 1994: 212 Miguel Cabrera, 2013: 200. Frank had 7 seasons with an OPS+ over 170. Cabrera is in his 3rd. My lord that's insane, even I didn't realize that Frank's numbers were like that.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 03:10 PM) Would a pitcher really be afraid of the Grace Jones lookalike Alexei coming after him? Remember your fight club. "Skinny guys fight like hell".

HA! I think I was at the same game as this guy!

My God! Good news fans, the Indians are showing signs of life for the first time in weeks. As a matter of fact they appear to be beating the crap out of each other. It looks like Willie Hayes is trying to hit Rick Vaughn, and why not, everyone else in the league does. Hayes swings and misses. I don't know Monte, it looks like Vaughn is carrying his left a little low. This could hurt him in the later rounds.

I didn't realize the Red Sox needed to trade for a 3b coach.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 11:19 AM) Thats probably true. But PK was this guy for the second half of last season as well, which is part of the reason the Sox could not hold off the Tiggers. I think Viciedo is just having an off year, as has happened to many players. They also lost a lot production with AJ's career season last year to Tylers production this year. I would agree there are a variety of factors that have caused the decline, but luck is the least of them. I just don't see any indications that this team will be better next year with another year under their belts as there are very few hitters on the rise. At the very least, this team had 4+ major injuries early in the season, including several of the freak variety. Viciedo, Beckham, Peavy, Floyd. Beckham in particular was the definition of a freak injury, and it's probably going to rob him of some power for the full season. That's pretty rotten luck.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 11:11 AM) Yeah, but last year, things went about as well as expected, until the end of the year, when I really thought Robin failed us as a manager. This year, as I expected, things didn't go well at all, and he seemingly has been unable to get them to respond in any form or fashion. Color me unimpressed. Things went much, much, much better last year than I expected. In particular with the focus and fundamentals.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 11:07 AM) I read those stories too. Maybe they need a different group then, because these guys certainly have not responded to him. This year. THey haven't responded to him this year. They did last year, with mostly the same guys.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 11:04 AM) Gotcha. I probably don't realize these things because I don't watch the games anymore. All I know is he is the 78th ranked player in baseball in the scoring system my fantasy league uses. Part of it with De Aza is also that he got off to a rotten start to the year as well. OPS April .678 May .716 June .810 The pitching was there for the team in April and May but none of the hitters were. They've been hitting better in June but the pitching has been half a run worse as well.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 10:41 AM) His surgery was May 7, so August would be almost 15 months. Pt gave a 12-18 month timeline for him to start throwing again IIRC, when normal TJS is throwing at like 9 months and coming close to back by 12.

QUOTE (thxfrthmmrs @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 10:37 AM) I still think Jimmy Butler is more of a natural 3. By not extending Deng, we will be able to shift Jimmy to the 3 and look for a natural scoring 2 that we really need to compliment this team. If we do not extend Deng and amnesty Boozer, then we would have a lot of rooms to play with, and we can really target some big name free agents or the plethora of great young RFA's in next year's class. By extending Deng, we are really saying a 30 year old Deng with all the mileage and nagging injuries is the best option in 2014, when it really isn't. And it will effectively close our windows to be free agent players in 2014, and the three years beyond that. I get both of these last couple posts. One thing worth noting though...Dunleavy signing a 2 year deal throws a major wrench into teh Bulls having a lot of room to play with.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 10:32 AM) Agree, but it will be a MLB deal, cause some other team will offer him that if the Sox don't. He will probably be ready around this time next season. Brandon Beachy had surgery on Jun 22 last season and will be back by the end of the month. Floyd is older so figuring a little extra time for recovery he should be back near the trade deadline next season. According to Ptatc, Floyd's injury and surgery was also slightly more severe than the usual TJS so it's not unreasonable that it will be >12 months before he is pitching in games again.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 10:32 AM) I'd have no problem with it in theory, but where would he pitch? I think he'll be penciled in as showing up in Charlotte during the middle of the year next year, and maybe see if he's ready to do a callup in August or September. By then who knows where the rotation will be.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 10:03 AM) Floyd probably won't pitch at all next season in a big league game...would make more sense to sign him to a minor league deal with some type of incentives and try to talk him into staying for 2015+. Or just wait until 2015. I think there's a very good chance the Sox will do exactly this.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 09:53 AM) So the strategy for contention should be "luck"? I don't see one player out in free agency this season that will make this team significantly better. I expect Dayan will revert to being the player he was last season, and that this season is more of an outlier, but 3B production will no doubt regress. Isn't it always luck? If you want a real strategy though...it's "get these players back to playing defense the way they were in 2012 and find a player to hit @ 1b"

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 09:39 AM) You spent the better part of the first half of the season campaigning against rebuilding. So you're essentially advocating, despite all historical evidence to the contrary (with the notable exceptions of Albert Belle and Adam Dunn) that they're going to give 3-4-5 year contracts to at least 2 and as many as 3 big-ticket free agents coming into 2014? What if that's the plan, and they don't end up signing anyone but retreads/cast-offs/players coming off injuries? If you're any of those FA players we keep mentioning, there's no other reason than money for coming to Chicago...so why would you choose Chicago instead of a contender if the money was fairly even? If we get into bidding wars, we lose every single time because at a certain point, Hahn's conservative/risk-averse nature will kick in and they'll drop out of the bidding. I don't think they will sign 3 guys, no. The reason I don't think they will is that I don't think teams will come through with offers that make trading Rios and others worthwhile. But I think if they're smart, and they get a little lucky with development from Phegley, they can sign 1 guy, hit the jackpot, and be right in this race next year.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 11, 2013 -> 09:32 AM) But that same $25 million from every team (but the Marlins) will also be chasing that same small group of elite players and driving the contracts for Ellsbury, Choo and McCann into the stratosphere. That's the downside. Then you get stuck with a so-so contract for Granderson when you didn't even really want him in the first place, but you have to take SOMEONE to give hope to the fans and marketing department. I wish and pray every day that people will stop pretending the marketing department is a good reason to do or not do something. You want to market the team? Win ballgames. You want to hurt the team? Lose. You want to destroy the team to the point contraction gets talked about? Lose for 8 years.