Balta1701

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 22, 2013 -> 02:55 PM) You don't like having your best hitter with RISP and third leading HR hitter bunting? Coulda been worse...coulda had Alexei bunting with 2 men on.

QUOTE (danman31 @ Jun 22, 2013 -> 01:20 PM) Maybe it's a move with the thought that he'll only be there until the trade deadline. Unless he's going to the bullpen, that'd require moving 2 starters from the major league team. Might be a "get him to AAA and give him a look in September to decide whether he's part of the 2014 rotation" move.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jun 22, 2013 -> 12:57 AM) Zero. It's all about the Benjamins for Crain now. He'll get as much as he can for as long as he can. There's a chance that could be with the White Sox though. He might not get more than 2 years at his age, and the ChiSox will have some money to spend and probably want a veteran reliever for the pen this offseason.

@CST_soxvan 1h Over 11 1/3 innings, Hector Santiago has not allowed earned run lifetime against the Royals. As Royal, Guthrie 0.40 ERA in 6 starts vs. Sox.

‏@CST_soxvan 1h #whitesox at KC, 7:10 CSN. Santiago v Guthrie De Aza CF Ramirez SS Rios RF Dunn 1B Konerko DH Gillaspie 3B Viciedo LF Beckham 2B Flowers C

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Jun 21, 2013 -> 05:19 PM) Do these two rotate every week? Omogrosso was burnt along with the rest of the bullpen in that 16 inning marathon in Seattle. They sent him down and called up Heath so they'd have a fresh arm in the pen for the next day, nothing else.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 21, 2013 -> 04:45 PM) I still think 2015 looks better. There's way more money off the books then, and some of our prospects should be useful. Plus, I think Konerko is done. That's production we've been taking for granted that must be replaced before this team can win, IMO. Really there's actually not that much more money coming off the books for 2015 if the Sox make some of the basic moves. If Rios is still here, his option now looks likely to be picked up if he hits like this for another year. Guys like Alexei, Sale, Beckham, De Aza (if still around again) will be moving up to more expensive years or later arb years, so each of them will add a couple million a year. And guys like Viciedo, Reed, Jones, Santiago will be hitting their first arb years and suddenly will be making a couple million each. Yes, Dunn's dead money comes off the books, but that sorta offsets the guys who increase if they're still here.

QUOTE (staxx @ Jun 21, 2013 -> 04:36 PM) If we decide to completely rebuild and forfeit contending next year, Trayce could be in CF if he continues to hit and bring up his average. IMO, there is zero reason to do this. The Sox have a ton of money coming off the books this offseason and a loaded pitching staff even if Peavy is dealt including a legit #1 starter. They need help to get there. They have hard decisions to make, but they can be competitive next year. And really, Trayce is still young, still raw, and I'm going to be furious when they call him up to AAA in a couple weeks. I think the team needs to be patient with him, let him have a full year in AA, then start next year in AAA and either earn a callup or come up if someone gets hurt. If Rios isn't dealt, there will be a need for an OF after 2014. Maybe more than 1, depending on De Aza's arb schedule and if/when they give up on Viciedo.

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jun 21, 2013 -> 04:34 PM) "Mutual interest" between Oden and Heat That would certainly be interesting. I'd be shocked if he can stay healthy, but they could use his size. Personally if I were in his shoes the only team I'd take a call from is Phoenix, but that's just me.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 21, 2013 -> 04:27 PM) I think you can get a pretty good prospect for De Aza for sure. He's better in a corner but he can play a passable CF. And, frankly, there's no reason he shouldn't be traded. I can give several. He's under team control for a couple more years (although arb years), the Sox have no one anywhere close to ready to take over CF next year, he started out the year poorly so its plausible he could improve his numbers and value significantly by the time the offseason rolls around if a team does want to trade for him, and if someone actually gets on him and coaches him on how to stay focused, particularly working on defensive drills, that could also improve him significantly. Again, I won't say no if he's traded for a reasonable return, but there's plenty of reason to hold on him and wait for someone to meet the price.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 21, 2013 -> 04:15 PM) I agree with you. When you compare rebuilding to winning, no one wants to rebuild. But that's not the situation we have here. We have to compare rebuilding to losing, because we have a losing team with not nearly enough upside to expect substantial improvement. IMO, if you are arguing against rebuilding this current team, you are arguing that there is a quicker path to contention, meaning that our current players will play substantially better in the future. Do you think this team can win next year if we don't trade anyone? Are we a free agent signing or two away? I just don't see it. It's not fun, but it's the only way. I think we're at a point where we have to trade some of these guys. Obviously Crain and Thornton must be moved, they're free agents at the end of the year assuming Matt's option isn't picked up, so the Sox can weigh the prospect received for them against "absolutely nothing". IMO, the fact that the Sox are sitting on six starters (successful alliteration) suggests that they should seriously think of selling someone like Peavy as well, as although he's not a FA at the end of this year, if they move any of their starters to the bullpen they will lose some value on that starter, which counts as an additional negative if no move is made. A guy like De Aza, Rios, Ramirez, guys we have no replacement for...those are the guys you need to really take into account the bust rate. You might get a guy back that the whole website really likes and then be screwed because he needs longer than Hosmer/Viciedo to develop, if he ever does.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 21, 2013 -> 03:58 PM) Certainly. I don't advocate trading Chris Sale at all. I just wanted to point out that it's useless to expect FO to use information from the future to evaluate the present. But what the front office needs to do when making these decisions is evaluate the possible downside risk. That's what drives us crazy, people name prospect after prospect, even people who aren't drafted, and salivate over them like they're Bryce Harper. People want the team to lose coming into seasons so that they can draft people, and the day after the draft they say "boy look how great the system of team Cubs is these days, they're going to be unstoppable". Everything in baseball tells us the exact opposite; we don't ever want to be in the boat of trading people away wholesale for prospects because the bust rate means there's a 3/4 chance we're going to lose that deal, maybe worse. Trading away a guy we don't need to trade away, like Sale, has to take that bust rate into account. Even if you list the 5 great Cardinals prospects, I sit here and think "ok, the odds are that 2 of them won't make the bigs, 2 of them won't develop as promised, and maybe we get 1 really good player out of that". For me, that's unacceptable. This is the reason you don't want to have to rebuild like this. It's terrible. It's the person working for minimum wage at McDonalds blowing their rent money on lottery tickets. We're in a position right now where we have left ourselves no choice because of how crappy the team is playing right now. Fine, I can deal with those moves, but every time people salivate over prospect list x from team y, they do so while pretending Eric Hosmer never happened.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 21, 2013 -> 03:44 PM) That's surface-level, factual information, but it's useless for any type of decision-making. If you could tell me WHY he was a bust and how you could have known, then it's useful. Otherwise, it's random happenstance. You make a deal for prospects that have a good chance to succeed and a good chance to fail because you HAVE to. It's the only way to acquire affordable talent. You take a risk. Just because Hosmer busted doesn't mean it was LIKELY he'd bust. People thought he was among the safest prospects around. Even if you have an 80% chance to win, you're going to lose 20% of the time. You can cherry-pick busts all you want, but for every horrible trade there's a great one too. The Indians traded Bartolo Colon for Cliff Lee, Brandon Phillips, and Grady Sizemore. They all had a chance to bust or hit, and it turned out that they all hit. You don't evaluate their decision to trade an aging star player for three lottery tickets based on whether or not the lottery tickets hit. If I buy a f***ing scratch off ticket today and win $50,000, that doesn't make me a financial genius. Judge me on the fact I decided to spend a dollar on a 1 in a million chance to win more. The problem here is the type of trade we're talking about. When Colon was traded to Montreal, he was a few months from free agency. He was a guy the Indians had to choose between keeping and trying to compete or losing at the end of the year. They were 10 games under .500 or so and were looking at losing the guy soon. That's comparable to a guy like Crain, Thornton, maybe Peavy on this roster...guys who are close to free agency. In that case, the bust rate compares to the virtual certainty of losing those guys for nothing. If you trade crain for a guy who never makes the big leagues, that's a scouting fail, but at least you got something for him. When we talk about Chris Sale on the other hand, he's a guy locked up for the next half a decade. There is nothing forcing us to trade Chris Sale, the only reason we should trade Chris Sale is if there's a high probability it would make the team better in the long run. If you trade Sale for 4 prospects, 2 of whom become average major leaguers and 2 of whom bust, you've cost the team an ace for a couple average major leaguers. In that case, the bust rate needs to be compared with the benefit of having a guy who can be the ace of the staff for the next 5 1/2 seasons.

QUOTE (bbilek1 @ Jun 21, 2013 -> 03:32 PM) That KW pickup rarely gets the credit it deserves. He picked up an adequate #3 hitter for absolutely nothing but the contract. And that same contract could be argued to be team friendly at this point. The problem is that he was so, so, so bad in 2011 that basically it has taken him performing well for the last 2 years to offset it and make him close to worth the amount paid to him. Counting this year, the sox have paid him ~$41 million. In WAR terms, he's been worth $13 million, -$5 million, $18 million, and finally $11.5 million so far this year. It has taken until this season for him to be worth the money paid to him in WAR terms.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jun 21, 2013 -> 03:15 PM) If we had given up I think we might have seen a younger guy, or at least someone new, called up. It seems the plan for the season call ups include Heath, Veal and Omogrosso http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=89015

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 21, 2013 -> 02:50 PM) Knowing and caring are two entirely different things. You cared enough to click on the thread and then post in it.

Just in case people didn't know those 2 moves happened.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 21, 2013 -> 10:26 AM) Imagine who the Royals would have been able to land 2 years ago if they offered Montgomery, Moose, Hosmer & Hochevar. Everyone would have been like OMGWTFHOLYs*** & now it's like, well, maybe a couple of those guys can rebound and become average players. And if you had traded your Sale for that you'd be calling for the head of your GM & rightfully so. And that's IF he's still employed. I believe there were people calling that the greatest minor league system ever.

QUOTE (beautox @ Jun 21, 2013 -> 01:59 PM) I would really like to see Axelrod get traded for a high upside low floor major league player that hasn't figured it out yet someone like the following: moustakas, conger, ackley, montero, or ike davis and a low minors live arm coming back as well. Keep in mind that at least some of those guys are approaching their arb years, and at least 1 of them is on the Miami steroid list.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jun 21, 2013 -> 10:47 AM) I think history has shown that when leaders say doing X means you'll be safe, generally they're lying out of their ass. Which is why I keep asking for a full accounting of the program(s) and its capabilities (and have been since 2006 or so).

Estimated costs of the Superman/Zod battle: $2 trillion, 125,000 dead, 250,000 unaccounted for.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jun 21, 2013 -> 10:30 AM) Oh bulls***. The odds of me dying in a car crash are better than me dying because of a terrorist attack. If that's your justification, the government should implant us all with chips right now. That's not my justification, that's the government's.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Jun 21, 2013 -> 10:28 AM) He has the kind of arm that should be able to throw an inning or two every day out of the pen and then go 6 for a spot start. These guys are not needed as much in the AL as the NL but I think there is some risk/reward there. I think he's much more valuable as an "adequate 5th starter" over the next several years. If he's giving you an ERA in the mid-4's, and can be stretched out towards 200 innings, that's going to be more useful to the White Sox than a spot starter would be for most teams. I'd expect in trades, his value is exactly what you describe; that of a spot starter, and I think there's a good chance he'd outperform that in the 5th starter role. If someone surprises me and offers up something of actual value for him I won't be mad, but I just think the stars are aligned that he's staying and we'll be hearing how much people hate him for the next 3-4 years while he quietly puts up unspectacular but tolerable numbers at the back of the rotation.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Jun 21, 2013 -> 10:24 AM) Axelrod actually has some use as a swing starter/long man to a contender, especially with all of the early season weather games coming back into play here shortly. . I still can't imagine anyone would give up anything of serious value for him. I pretty much expect him to remain "much more valuable to the Sox over the next 3+ years than he would be in a trade".

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jun 21, 2013 -> 10:15 AM) There is no end benefit to me for that lack of privacy. I don't get anything out of it. I didn't even consent to it. So yes, we should all be upset about this. I totally understand the national security need to perhaps tap a phone when it's imperative and getting a warrant from a court isn't feasible. Those things happen and i'm glad that they do. But again, grabbing up data on my 90 year old grandma serves no purpose other than the government invading privacy just for the sake of doing it. The argument for the government doing this is that the benefit is "you stay alive". But, as I keep saying, the difference with your other points is, I know when I get a coupon cashed in what the original price was, I know I'm still alive, but I have no ability to evaluate whether or not that would be the case if this program didn't exist.