Balta1701

QUOTE(iamshack @ Nov 29, 2007 -> 09:19 AM) Meanwhile, you dismiss Sweeney who is nearly four years younger than Willits (about 45 months to be exact). While he hasn't shown the progress many of us thought he would after the giant steps he appeared to be making early, Sweeney has shown more power than Willits despite a wrist injury that has been slowing him down. When Willits was Sweeney's age, he was in A ball. Just keep that in mind when comparing the two... And Mathis? He has an OPS barely over .600 in his major league career. While his career minor league numbers are impressive (.793 OPS for a catcher), if he was one of our prospects many would be proclaiming bust and that he wasn't "much of a prospect anymore." As for Fields, you can talk about the k's all you want, the .244 BA, the .788 OPS for a CI, his low walk rate, etc, but anyway you slice it, a .480 SLG in your first year in the big leagues is pretty impressive. Heck, Chris Young's OBP, SLG, and therefore OPS numbers were lower than Fields' and yet we don't ever stop moaning about that deal around here... And Gio...when are the durability questions going to start to subside with this kid? Has he ever been significantly injured yet in his minor league career? And since when does a guy who k's 185 in 150IP with a better than 3:1 k/BB ratio not equal a very solid prospect, especially considering he just turned 22? And why is Nick Adenhart, who is admittedly 11 months younger but whose numbers weren't nearly as dominant a stud prospect (116 k's in 153 IP and less than a 2:1 k/BB ratio)? I just don't understand that. Crud, I forgot to rank Gio in there. Gio goes in there right next to Fields. That does make our offer look quite a bit bit better. But no matter how we rank them, it looks to me like the Angels are giving up 2 people who would be more highly ranked in the eyes of most scouts than any of the 3 guys we'd be including, and that's the biggest issue. Out of those 2 deals, the Marlins get the 2 best players if they deal with the Angels. I like Sweeney, don't get me wrong...but in terms of value, the simple fact is, he's spent 2 years at AAA and has struggled more than expected. That's troublesome. He hasn't shown the power that he's needed to develop, and there have been rumblings about his stubbornness in adapting his swing and learning new things. And now he's added the whole "Injury prone" label with repeated injuries on the same body part. I think guys like Sweeney and Anderson (and say, Floyd) are exactly the guys the Sox should be trying to stockpile right now; guys who's values have declined in the eyes of other teams but who we might be able to turn into something really good, because that is one quick way to make our minor leagues improve rapidly. But that just doesn't mean that they have a lot of value to other teams right now, no matter how much we might want them to. Willits has put up numbers in the big leagues, Sweeney hasn't. That's the line I have to draw when looking at those 2.

QUOTE(PorkChopExpress @ Nov 29, 2007 -> 09:06 AM) I've been thinking about this. The rumors are that the Marlins are looking for four players, 3 major leaguers and a pitcher or two players and two pitchers (per mlb.com). The Angels are said to be offering a package including like: Kendrick (2B), Mathis ©, Willits (OF), Adenhart (P). Why can't the White Sox swoop in and offer Fields (3B), Danks (P), Gio (P), one of Richar/Getz/Shelby/Bourgeois (2B) and Sweeney (OF)? We are offering five players instead of four covering similar positions. Fields = Kendrick, Danks/Gio > Adenhart (yes, he's supposed to be good, but Danks has a year of experience under his belt and Gio is supposed to be good too), Sweeney Mathis. If they need the ctacher, maybe we offer Lucy or Armstrong. I just don't think it is impossible for us to get Cabrera, but we will have to pay for him. I don't think that deal outbids the Angels deal. Fields is more valuable than Mathis or Willits, but Kendrick probably beats all the guys we'd be putting up in value, and so does Adenhart. I think a rough valuation of the guys on that list would be: Kendrick, Adenhart, Danks, Fields, Willits, Sweeney, Mathis, Then the last guy. You can quibble with me on little bits, but I think that with the way you built those deals, the players that LAA is offering are just worth more than the players we'd be offering.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 10:37 PM) How bout Contreras and some Class A stiff for Bob Howry? If we would/could have done something like that, we wouldn't/shouldn't have signed Linebrink.

2008 Minnesota Twins = 2006 Florida Marlins?

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Nov 29, 2007 -> 09:01 AM) When did Scott Borass take over as Marlins GM? And, I believe you make my point for me. Scott Boras's being a jerka** clearly has dramatically hurt his ability to get large contracts for his players, right?

QUOTE(bighurt4life @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 08:27 PM) It's really no surprise that only one sox player has made this list so far, our farm system doesn't really get many props from the rest of baseball. I wouldn't be surprised to see DLS somewhere in the 15-20 range though, he's pretty nasty. I would've thought that Carter would've made the top 50 though DLS might have a shot at being top 10 in BA's lists next year if he repeats his performance at AA this year.

QUOTE(Whitewashed in '05 @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 11:36 PM) One downfall is that players from the rule 5 have to stay on the major league roster the whole season for the team who took them or they go back. When I look at our roster...if we could clear a spot on the 40 man to pick up a guy, I can certainly see us having room for a doubles hitting Right Handed OF with decent speed. It'd be an excellent guy to stick into a quasi-platoon with Owens and to give Dye/whoever else we get some extra rest. In 2006 this kid stole 39 bases between single and double A. That sounds an awful lot like the kind of guy we might want.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 29, 2007 -> 08:46 AM) Wow. If the Marlins' GM is doing that to everyone, he's not making life easy for himself. The other GM's won't deal with him. Pretty stupid. Yes they will. This is a business. The Marlins have property that is in high demand, and other teams want that property. You think because they're playing for time on MCab that if they put Dontrelle on the market, suddenly people wouldn't be interested?

QUOTE(Chet Lemon @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 07:55 PM) I have shared your sentiment as well since the Garland trade. When you're coming off a 70 win season, playing it safe doesn't seem like that safe of an option.

QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 07:22 PM) KW thought he would get Hunter, plain and simple. Also, Orlando Cabrera is in his walk year, and sounds like he has no intention of resigning with the Sox before the season. Well, then we get 2 draft picks when Cabrera walks, and everyone celebrates the return of the clubhouse feel we had in 05 when we give Uribe a 5/$75 contract next year after he puts up a .900+ OPS next year and everyone suddenly forgets about the mediocre years he had before that.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 06:59 PM) Why is it that the Sox will be in trouble in 5-7 years and nobody else will? We have just as many if not more pitching prospects than the twins do, who knows what will pan out. I don't subscribe to that theory, but I'd say it's in no small part based on our recent drafting prowess when compared with the other folks in our division. Other teams grabbing guys like Miller, Porcello, Garza, finding the occasional gem like Zumaya, etc. Right now, if you can't draft, it's difficult to build a team with a long string of success.

QUOTE(Mr. Showtime @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 05:49 PM) That is odd to hear if it is true. Certainly is a KW big splash type move, but the Sox don't have the chips to play in this poker game. Hell, even if they did, they'd have some major issues with signing him. Here's the question. In a FA, if you get in on the bidding to drive the price up, you usually expect to hurt your bidding opponent by making them spend more even if you lose. But in the trade market, if we're in on this...then wouldn't we expect that we'd be helping out the Twins by driving up the baseline of what they could get? I.e. The Yankees offer Hughes and Cabrera, the Twins counter by saying we've offered Gio, DLS, and Fields, and the Yankees have to beat that if they want him?

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 05:27 PM) Someone explain to me why the WRITERS would be striking a DEBATE. I simply do not see them as related. We're talking about the writers for the CBS Evening news. The CBS Evening news would be the ones hosting the debate. Presumably Couric would be doing the moderating. And hence, the Dems would have to cross a picket line to appear on that debate, because the show that would be hosting the debate would have its writers on strike.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 05:03 PM) This is a joke, right? The writers guild - for a debate? The candidates have no urge to be seen crossing a picket line, and that's what they'd have to do to appear on CBS once their news writers go on strike (a different strike from the general WGA one on right now)

QUOTE(TheBigHurt @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 05:02 PM) I'm not saying that. Just understand that the idea makes me nervous as hell, as I've sure it makes MANY others nervous as well. We are talking about Contreras, Danks, AND another possible AAA baller. Try telling me that doesn't scare you a little. Let's put it this way. Last year, we came into the season with a "more sure thing" rotation than this year, and we wound up with what, 70 wins? We're in a position where we if we play it safe, we might improve to 75 wins just off of injury related luck. The only way we're going to get better next year is to gamble in several spots and have those gambles work. Given that otherwise, we'd be spending near $45 million on our rotation, and the only place in our minors where we have both depth and talent is starting pitching, we may as well put one of our gambles there. If it doesn't pay off, then what have we lost? If Floyd falls apart, then what have we lost? 2 months of time for a 5th starter tryout, and we wind up with a better draft pick next year to start rebuilding the system.

QUOTE(TheBigHurt @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 04:48 PM) Yeah, based on the past, that ought to work very well! Because one set of young 5th starter candidates failed...all potential 5th starter candidates are forever doomed to fail.

QUOTE(TheBigHurt @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 04:42 PM) Reported on SportsNite. Just wondering what everyone's reaction might be to this quote. I like both of these players, but who is going to be starting next year in his place? Floyd??? Gio? Gio I could see, but is he ready? I can see it turning into another Danks situation. And what happened to Kenny's philosophy of not trading (good) pitching for position players? In terms of salary, he's right, Linebrink + Cabrera = Garland. Contreras, Danks, and Floyd obviously get the first shot at the starting rotation next year. If one of them falters, then I imagine we're going to start going down the AAA list, and it is a fairly long one: Haeger, Broadway, Sisco, Gio, Egbert, in some order depending on performance this year.

Not going to poke fun, just going to say these 2 things in response. 1. The Twins would never give up Johan to us for that little 2. Johan will not give us anywhere near that big of a discount.

Just hitting the wires:

So, in case somehow you've missed it, the big news on this side today is that the online rag "The Politico" has come out with a detailed story alleging that Rudy made use of NY City taxpayer funds to finance his romantic getaways to the Hamptons with the woman who would later become his 3rd wife, and then said that the reports couldn't be released for "Security" reasons. Interestingly, tonight is the CNN/Youtube debate for the Republicans. But, despite this probably being the biggest scandal story to hit this side of the aisle, it's going to be totally unmentioned in the debate, since the questions were submitted and vetted before this story broke. So, whaddya on this side think? Will this be a major hit on Rudy?

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 02:57 PM) The Twins have pitching, you know it, and you are merely in denial. Well, they certainly have pitching...but when you look at that list, it's hard to say that any of those guys is a "Sure thing". Either they are just coming off major surgery or they're young, and no matter how talented people are, the odds of going 5/5 on none of those being major issues aren't great.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 02:32 PM) Yeah that's what hurts here, we lost our best trading partner for Uribe. It's hard to see another team right now that would trade for him, we might be "stuck" with him for 2008. Toronto. St. Louis.

Wheeler was traded from the 'Stros for Ty Wigginton.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 02:57 PM) How'd they get Rincon and Wheeler? And when? That's the other Twinkies/Rays thread. At least for Steroids Rincon.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Nov 28, 2007 -> 02:27 PM) I really like this deal for Tampa. Any chance of us getting Rincon in a Uribe deal? No.