Balta1701

That will not get Snell.

I think Mazara winning an MVP award is more likely than that.

I agree I wasn't a fan of the outfield options. But their real need, the mandatory thing they needed this offseason, was a top of the line starting pitcher. I could tolerate a stopgap RF if we were spending $36 million a year on a cy young candidate. I'm not a big fan of the 2 pitching options who are left as middle-rotation guys, but there's pretty much no other option. They have Mazara (and Rodon) for 2 years. Otherwise, they're waving the white flag for 2020 already, and that leaves us 1 season before the "We need to trade Moncada/Giolito to make sure we get something for them" point is reached.

Why do I feel like the same people saying "This will be fine they'll sign someone big in 2021" will be saying "This will be fine they'll sign someone big in 2022" a year from now?

Why do we need him? We have Mazara now.

I think you're dreaming if you come up with that from a statement about the guys fielding.

So the best guy next year is as good as the #3 guy this year, and I said the "Top of the rotation guys who were available this year aren't there next year". Thank you.

What the bleeping bleep did I just read?

Because we never learned our lesson. And anyway, you should be happy I'm mentioning that one, because it's not the only example and people are more sick of hearing of the other time when we did the exact same t thing and it worked out worse. This site had people spend 10 years saying "We're fine trading low-level prospects for middling major leaguers because trading away the prospects never comes back to haunt us". And then it did, badly. That should have taught us the lesson, but well here we are again. And this one will probably work out ok, the next one will probably work out ok, but then the 3rd one will give away someone who turns out to be really valuable and you'll be back to saying "Everything is the _____" trade, without noting how we got there. The thought process is the same. Low level prospects are ok to give up, because most of them bust, and mediocre big leaguers might have some upside. Exactly the same logic today.

Except you aren't thinking about this like a team that would make this move, you're trying to think about this as a big market franchise when this is a move for a small market franchise. A small market franchise thinks they have a 1 win player in the OF and that position is covered, they don't think about paying for Springer.

"This trade for Samardzija is a better option than paying what Scherzer or Lester will get, if it doesn't work out they aren't out much, not like they gave up a future MVP candidate."

Nomar Mazara will not be a cheap arb guy. If he improves to a 3-win player, he's a 3-win player under control for 1 year with a salary closing on $10 million. If he doesn't hit any better, he's a non-tender candidate as a 1-win player with a salary near $8 million. He's going to get you as much as Avi Garcia brought us. And I shouldn't have to point out why moving Eloy to DH or why trading Eloy with Mazara under control through 2021 would be a bad idea.

Well first of all - if they need Springer next year then that means this trade was pretty crappy because Springer would take over this guy's position. But if this trade works well, then it's created another clock - if Mazara bumps up to a 3-win player this year, great - we have exactly 2 shots with the guy before he walks as a free agent for an Ozuna-caliber deal. They clearly need to bring in pitching, but the top 3 from this year are off the market already, and next year's options don't have the kind of top of the rotation guys who were available this year - only 2nd tier pitching, comparable to Ryu and Bumgarner. Paxton, Bauer, Odorizzi, Stroman. So if they don't go out overpay for moderately good but questionable pitching this year, they're going to be asking themselves next year if they want to overpay for moderately good but questionable pitching next year. And if they don't want to spend that this year, and instead keep their payroll under control by going and signing Nova and someone else like that - why are they for guys with so little control? Basically, they have to go add a high priced starting pitcher right now otherwise they're failing to do what you want them to do, and they're wasting the limited time with Mazara in the process.

Just remember, you said repeatedly how disappointed you'd be if the payroll wasn't $160 million. They're passing on better options to keep the payroll low, and they've already missed the 3 highest quality starting pitchers.

Just remember, we said this over and over and over again, and then we said it about Samardzija and Shields. The odds are it's right, because it's going to be right 80% of the time. But it's a fundamentally flawed strategy.

You cannot possibly say the White Sox will "Still spend nothing when the rebuild is ending" while looking at this trade. This is literally looking at options they could spend on, better players, who would cost more money, and taking a worse player because he costs less.

You know what? There's a good chance you're right, and still it's the wrong thing to say. We heard over and over and over again how little we gave up in the Samardzija trade, the Frazier trade, the Shields trade - you can find that exact comment in every one of those threads. People said it years later about Samardzija. But what happened? 2/3 of the time that statement was right, and then a few times it blew up spectacularly - to the point of literally destroying the franchise for years. Gave up a top 3 MVP candidate and a top 3 prospect in deals that were selling high on players, where we gave up very little. A large fraction of the time you're going to be right, but because the few successes are so important compared to the many failures, doing moves like this is a strategy that failed us, doomed us, and will fail us continuously in the future. This move could work out extremely well, and it's still a move of a type that will send this franchise right back where it was in 2016 once we do a few more.

Well thank god the people who allowed that rot to fester have lifetime contracts.

Rick Hahn Special.® High priced, short control return, long term control sent out, convinced themselves he's worth more than his performance shows.

Also I just noticed that there are no pitchers on your list.

The Yankees, the Dodgers, the Cubs, The Rockies, the Giants, the Braves, the Red Sox? The Phillies and Rangers on that list also have had a good number of playoff appearances even though they had a few down years. Literally it's the Mets, Reds, and Padres on that list who have guys currently signed to big deals without playoff runs to show for them.

And I see development and upside in many of the players that we could give away, and a history of dramatically overpaying for veterans in trades, and free agency 2 years away even if Mazara turns out to develop. If we get him at a reasonable cost I won't complain, but it has to literally be a pittance given his contract status. Trust for a GM is earned, not given away, and this GM has taught me well not to trust his judgment at all when it comes to trading for big leaguers.

I have no idea what this means. Every other year of his career, his BABIP against RHP has been close to .300. In 2019, it was .340, in an injury shortened season, and half a season of PAs can easily produce anomalies like that.

Supported by a higher BABIP against righties than he's had in any other season in his career, which is a risk any time you select out half a season worth of plate appearancnes.

Playing half his games in a hot hitters park too.