Balta1701

I'd happily do 2/$22 for him with where our team currently sits, and so you could potentially talk me into the higher numbers or the longer deal. With the expanded rosters, if I think his defense will be usable, I could probably find 500+ PAs for him and a roster spot for him each of the next 3 years. But I do struggle to see how a guy who only got $10 million this year is going to get 3 years.

Yes, but having a cheap but solid 1b in Vaughn for 2021 would be a huge contributor to something more than 70 wins because that's $20 million I can spend elsewhere.

I'm not going to guess wins because I've tried that before and been badly wrong, but I think that's the best roster I can put out for the money with a legitimate chance of competing for the division. It could also go badly wrong. With Cole, Abreu, Calhoun/Reddick, Moustakas, Smith, and Nova/Teheran, I wind up with a payroll that is close to $140 million. Start at $70 million including Abreu but not Sanchez and all of the minimum-salary guys the org needs to fill out a roster, $10 million for the RF (trading team chips in a little), $10 million for Moustakas, $10 million for Smith, $35 million for Cole, and $5 million for Nova/Teheran/other 6th starter swingman options. I went all-in with the #1 starter, but everywhere else I spread my money around to try to create balance, flexibility, depth, and improve everything. I'm also not spending premium dollars on the 5th starter spot when we have Lopez and Rodon in the org, I'm not trading away either Madrigal or Vaughn on a deal to fill any spots, I'm not blocking either of those guys, and I'm not assuming teams will take bad deals for valuable players like we've seen suggested for Nimmo. If the payroll limit is $120 million, I have no idea how to make a team I think is competitive.

Yup, Palka flopped. Had they spent $15 million at that position and brought in someone good, congratulations on winning 75 games here's the same 3rd place trophy, and now we have $10 million less to spend in 2020? At the very least, we tried it and now we have an extra 40 man spot. That sort of move was exactly what the White Sox should have been doing the last few years, and hell they should have done more of it. And yes, spending 1/3 of your total payroll at 1b and DH can certainly be a problem if any other positions struggle or have injuries.

The other things that make me think they are really, really bad at player valuation are: leaking the 8/$175 deal and thinking that they had a strong offer, thinking that upping that offer slightly at Soxfest would make everything come together even while Machado's side had said $300 million was his asking price, Boras not even bothering to leak that they were a player for Harper late in the process/never bothering to call them back after they met at the Winter meetings, and thinking early in the year that they had a chance at both Harper and Machado to the point where that was in the stuff we heard. I think they went into last year expecting that $350 million total would by both of those players, with no ability to process that a $300 million deal was a fair asking price for Machado.

I've been guessing around 2/$20, he could only get 1/$10 last year with no qualifying offer attached so I figure the 2 years gets him, and he also removes the need for Sanchez as a backup IF - just need someone on the roster to back up SS and that's Leury. If Vaughn gets ready then things get slightly crowded in 2021 but likely still at bats available between 1b/DH/2b/3b/pinch hitter from the LH Side.

Ideal? Abreu, Cole, Calhoun/Reddick (team chips in a little bit to save payroll), Moustakas (2 year deal), Will Smith (2 year deal), and Nova/Teheran/I'm open to other ideas. Comes in somewhere around $140 million give or take, strengthens all parts of the team, leaves me the ability to clear out 1b/DH next offseason if Vaughn is ready, gives me the best FA on the market who will also be movable almost every year if he stays healthy, and importantly I still have money to spend in 2021 to fill the gaps of whatever goes wrong this year. Note the tradeoffs I made. I went with the top starter and nearly top bullpen pitcher, but because of that I went with a cheaper DH and RF option and a weak 6th starter/bullpen guy. Also, basically anything good becomes impossible to do if we're paying Abreu and limited to a $120 million payroll, Wheeler included.

I think that's a recipe for another bottom 5 in the league offensive season with an average at best bullpen and missing the playoffs by a long ways.

LOL Cole and Wheeler? Naw, I was talking about going with Wheeler and Hamels. Cole and Wheeler is $50-$60 million between them. That's Avi Garcia in RF and Mitch Moreland at DH to find enough money to do it.

True, but now you have Avi Garcia as your starting RF because you had to save some money elsewhere.

Having $45 million locked up at 1b/DH, positions where teams don't tend to give up much in a trade, and your only remaining solid prospect blocked by those guys, with less money to spend in 2021 as a consequence - is actually not a good problem to have.

Ok, but then remember that you now have to save $10-$15 million somewhere else.

It shouldnt be, if he struggles in ST then he should start in the minors. Whether they'll use that to offset the lost service time I don't know, but he should have to prove he's ready to go before he's up. But having a guy like Teheran who can throw 50 innings as a starter while waiting on Kopech for a few million is different from having a guy like Quintana or Hamels who can throw 175 innings and who probably will stay in the rotation the whole year. If you bring in one of those guys, and you sign Wheeler, when Kopech is ready to go - who's the odd man out? Do you give up on Lopez if he has an iffy start again? Do you give up on Cease? Are you counting on an injury that early? What happens when Rodon is back and you now are 7 deep, are Rodon and Lopez both bullpen pitchers?

Well no he can't but that's because Pujols was way way way better, like so far better that the comparison is silly. If Abreu was anything close to that caliber of hitter then that's exactly what they would say. That's exactly one of the things Scott Boras does in his player packets - includes comps.

If you're willing to burn a minor league option it's pretty easy with him, you can say you're trying to control his innings load by keeping him in the minors for 2 months and any grievance is easily won because that's totally plausible, especially if you skip a few starts with him or do 6-7 days of rest a few times. I'm not sure I'd do this if he has a strong spring, but they might.

That's literally what you have to do. The majority of contracts signed every year for mid-level players turn out to look pretty bad within 1 year. An average contract given out to a FA is a "mediocre at best" contract.

I can see the White Sox keeping Kopech down to steal the extra year of control/burning an option, but I would be somewhat angry if they were expecting to hide him for most of the year. Kopech and Cease are the key guys in making this a strong rotation, even if it takes Kopech a while to find his control we need him up and working on facing big league hitters for a good part of this year.

I'd be surprised if it got that high, but pitching prices are in fact "Insane" on any scale we're calibrated for, so I wouldn't be stunned.

JMO - we shouldn't just give up on Lopez yet by bringing in another starter likely to throw a large number of innings. We should be looking at a Nova or a Teheran - a guy who we are comfortable moving to the bullpen several times during the year as people come up from the minors, but who can serve as a starter for weeks to months if needed.

Corbin literally got $140 million, not $125.

If the Nats win 7, is Stras the MVP?

I loved that response by Soto. That was the best. That's how you respond to someone showing you up.

Even with that, I'm still more motivated to see the end of that saga than I was to see Solo (and I still haven't talked myself into it). I might when I wind up buying the Disney streaming package for Marvel stuff.

They wound up with a boost of 700 tickets sold per game this year, which isn't the Phillies but it's still a pretty solid jump. Since 2006, the only 2 years where White Sox attendance has gone up year over year are 2015 and 2019 - it has declined every other year. Want to really worry yourself? If they're 10 years out of date on their player valuations, and they think they can sign Wheeler with a 5/$55 deal and they're not willing to go above 5/$68 - the same situation as Machado - we could see this same situation again.

Yeah that wasn't particularly fun.