Balta1701

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 11:20 AM) When did you become the guy who suddenly thinks every prospect will work out? This trade concept only makes sense if you think the organization can know which ones will work and which ones won't. Edit: Oh and I'm really down on Rodon if that counts.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 11:16 AM) Why are we assuming Cease will automatically be a #2 starter? There’s a reason his projected WAR over his first six seasons is like 2 or so because of the high bust potential a guy like him has. That’s not to say we should just give him away, but adding Machado for the 2018 season improves our chances to sign him long-term at some point and we should recognize that value whether he signs with us or not. It’s all about probability and making sure you pay the right price. I think it’s pretty f***ing awesome Hahn is thinking outside the box and is willing to take a calculated risk. And if his calculated risk flops, are we willing to fire him? We haven't been so far on any of his other calculated risks. This entire "uncalculable increase in our chances to sign him long term" seems so much like a happy fantasy to me that if the fantasy is blown apart by reality, we should be.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 11:09 AM) Fulmer looked great in September vs. Det and SF. I wouldn't hang a hat on that. We literally said word for word this exact post about GFloyd in 07. He had 3 or 4 balls hit to the wall in Detroit that leave 27 other ballparks. But he built on that.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 11:04 AM) In all honesty I still believe that Fulmer can develop at the mlb level and be solid. Flipping any of these young pitchers is a mistake, especially since you can never have too much pitching. We will be counting on these arms to bring us a championship moving forward. I am 100% in agreement. I could live with losing 1 of them if an extension was guaranteed, but it sure doesn't seem to be, hence, I'm baffled and talking about the GM being fired if he's wrong.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 10:59 AM) That's why I would be open to a trade, but the following players are off limits: Eloy/Kopech/Moncada/Giolito/Lopez/Hansen/Robert/Cease/Dunning/Collins They can select from: Fulmer, Adams, Stephens, etc. tier for a rental. Do they accept that? Probably not, but I absolutely refuse to surrender top prospects for one meaningless season of Machado. I know Fulmer's peripherals weren't great last year, but he also had some decent big league performances. If you gave up Gavin Floyd after 2007 for a rental, and the team wasn't competitive in 2008, and the rental left, same rule? Whole thread still remains bewildering for this reason.

QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 10:44 AM) That;ll be the glaring weak point CWS moved on from some talented guys last two years but hopefully spend on it next year That rotation might have a lot of 8 run, 3 inning games too.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 10:53 AM) I doubt teams are trading their top guys for a one year rental though, especially the White Sox. It would be criminal to give up a player like Kopech in a deal for one season of Machado with the cost of starting pitching. Anything better than a Cease/Dunning level prospect would be a mistake in my opinion, and I do not love the idea of dealing either of those players as well. I get the "extended sales pitch" idea, but what is that worth in terms of our prospects? If you gave up a guy who in 3 years was a #2 starter for a guy you paid $17 million to in a contract year where your team only won 75 games and then had that guy walk as a free agent, that should be a firing offense for a GM.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 08:16 PM) This Alabama election result really has some at SoxTalk so shook up, they've disappeared temporarily. Dude, it's XMas season. Only reason I'm on is procrastinating from grading.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 07:03 PM) That's actually not true. Hahn already said he wanted to rebuild but they decided to make a push for the playoffs. And that worked out great too! His logic was so solid, "If we keep playing like this we'll be right there in the end" was an almost verbatim quote from him in early July of 2015. See the problem yet? All of this "There's no downside" talk ignores the downside we watched happen for a lesser player. He got terrible offers for the guy and talked himself into the idea that his team could compete because they had a good 8 game stretch and got back to .500 in early July.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 07:59 PM) Watch this end up being a situation like the Samardzija deal where people were freaking out we dealt Anderson and it turned out to be more about wuantity than quality. Watch a deal somehow center around Stephens and Adams while everyone else is intact. And that deal wound up costing us 1 quality starting IF and everyone insisted we'd be able to trade him at the deadline and then we couldn't get anything of use back for him after his terrible July and then everyone loved the draft pick and it wound up being a guy down for TJS. This is what we call learning from history.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 07:59 PM) Hard when you have an owner like that. I like Dan Duquette and he’s done a great job, but man they are an obnoxious franchise. I’m probably missing some team, but he’s the worst owner now right? Marlins?

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 07:42 PM) I mean, those MF'ers already throttle us without our knowledge. And unless you test and document frequently you would never know.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 07:47 PM) It makes zero sense for the White Sox if they don't plan to sign him. If the White Sox are truly interested trading for him, I don't buy that part. Even flipping him is a risk. What if he gets hurt or has a slow start? FWIW, he had a slow start last year and at the deadline his OPS was only .751. It was .829 over the final 2 months.

QUOTE (kwill @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 07:40 PM) Hey Soxtalk Friends, Right now as presently stand this is the current White Sox Rotation: Rodon Shields Fulmer Lopez Giolito. Rodon may not break camp as he is recovering from surgery so their is a possibility of him not pitching until May. Giolito is on the block with the Machado trade rumors so who knows what will happen. But, lets say for this exercise that he remains with the club and is part of the rotation. We would likely experience injuries or under performance by one or more starters this year. I believe White Sox should not pickup a veteran starter. So here is the best case scenario for picking up a starter on a one year deal. You sign him, he has a monster first half and you trade him for a B level Prospect and maybe a flyer. The White Sox would have more to gain using those starts on their own B-Level Prospect Starters like Stephens, Adams and Guerrero to battle it out in Spring Training. All three spent significant time in AA last year and will likely start the year in AAA if they do not make the major league roster. All three have shown some flashes of big league talent and this year is the time to see if they can become a back end starter or more. Shields is likely to be traded(hopefully) midseason and that slot will likely open up. I suspect though the White Sox have correlated Shields leaving with Kopech arriving to the big leagues. I know that they could each stand to gain to have at least half year in AAA but in a year from now are the White Sox going to have space in the rotation to really find out? Wouldn't it best serve the White Sox to know what they have before next off-season? Especially with Rodon questionable...do you have confidence in each of those guys being 150+ innings pitchers this year? That's the other motivation for an extra starter, to not push guys too hard.

Don't worry everyone, I'm sure you can trust Comcast to handle this well and fairly.

QUOTE (yesterday333 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 07:32 PM) Its not a strong offer... no top prospects... and we get a year to pitch to him. whats the down side? If all you gave up was Sanchez, and he walks, and he's a 2 WAR player like he was last year, congratulations you've weakened your 2019 and 2020 roster by $15 million a year in value. You guys know how this works. If "a year to pitch to him" is what it takes and that works, great, but Rick Hahn would be gambling his 2019 roster's key addition on that year. If he loses that gamble, there should be consequences.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:25 PM) if you get machado for Dunning and Yolmer there is nothing stupid about this trade. For all we know, that's what they offered and why Bob is now saying their offer wasn't that strong. I don't need a new TV that badly but if my neighbor has a sign outside his place that says he's selling a Sony 4K HDR Bravia 60" for $299 imma go check it out. If they don't expect to be able to get an extension done, that's still 2 possible guys who could be contributors in 2019 for a guy who won't be. That's a move that makes us worse in 2019. Why make the team worse on paper in 2019 and 2020? If you know you have $1000 in the bank and a $900 rent check coming due, spending that $299 on a great TV is still a mistake.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:23 PM) People losing their damn minds over rumors. Come on, what in the last 18 months makes you think NOW Hahn is impatient and wants to throw away all that hard work he did to go all in on a Machado trade? Have some faith, or a beer. The fact that this thread exists and makes no sense at all, whatsoever, without an extension.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:08 PM) I mean, we have absolutely zero idea what has been discussed, if the Sox are being used to drive up bargaining, which players were offered, how serious any of this is. Losing faith in the front office due to winter meeting speculation is laughable I wouldn't lose faith if it were announced as done with no extension associated with it...but I'd be ****ing nervous.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:09 PM) What are the other five? James Shields is obviously one of them. What else are you including? I'm just going with the "2013, 2015, 2016" offseasons in general and "Robin Ventura's contract extension" as my list of 5. Trading for Machado and then having him walk would rival any of those. It would be totally unacceptable in every imaginable way. So, whatever they have to give up for him, I'm only ok with it once the extension is done. Until then, it's a disaster in the making and every day that goes by makes it more of a risk.

he wanted to say "I don't want to make black people's lives better" and realized how awful and terrible it sounded mid sentence so he slurred it and then started using the excuse that he meant to say "Blah people". Good shorthand for any time you want to sarcastically deal with a Republican and matters of race.

I haven't seen anyone say this yet so I will - if RH does trade for Machado and the player leaves as a free agent, that would count in my eyes as his 6th "fireable offense". That's how big of a mistake that would be.

QUOTE (Knuckles @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 01:07 PM) Teams actually think he can play 2B (that was a type which Im sure you are aware). I figured it was a typo but had no idea someone thought he could play 2b.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 02:08 PM) I honestly don't know what you're saying. Whatever we think they're going to blame the Republicans for destroying something useful, the voters will assume "those people" (euphemism) are really the problem since they're getting the good, free versions reserved for those minorities.