TheBigHurt

Well again, I'll just say it nicely and say that you are just wrong. Each win doesn't individually mean Ozzie managed well. That just isn't logical. And I'm not saying I don't look at the big picture, but the point was whether or not Ozzie knows what the hell he's doing, and you weren't being logical in the argument, whether or not it is important (although it IS). Not saying I have a choice. And I don't expect everyone to agree with me, as I myself admit I am wrong sometimes (as I was earlier about the point about Manny and Konerko). But I do believe some of things I have said are facts, and I don't know how anyone can think Ozzie is a good in-game manager when he has PROVEN his incompetence in the most basic and fundamental managerial responsibilities.

Hell, what does the rest of Minny's schedule look like???

That's the funny part. You are expecting everyone to agree with you fully and if someone explains to you WHY you are simply incorrect, you take offense. Sorry, but you saying a win is automatically a well-managed game is simply 100% incorrect. Is that tame enough for you?

Well, first off, you said we were playing well. We're not. We've scored some REALLY ugly wins against some really faltering (or already s***ty) teams lately. Mathematically I would say you are pretty correct. But some help would always be nice.

Who said ANYTHING about a perfect manager or about another manager at all for that matter? I'm not talking about anyone else, just about Ozzie. Saying "good luck finding a perfect" manager isn't a counterpoint and ultimately has nothing to do with anything. Now, if you wanna discuss who would be a better manager I'd be all for it, and that's a good question, but in my mind there's GOTTA be SOMEONE who will at least be intelligent enough to pay attention more to the numbers and not fall asleep when a pitcher is screaming to be taken out of the game, doesn't there? Name ONE and more than likely we're looking at a better option; at least I hope so.

Well, again, I don't think anyone here has a hard time with that. I understand that perfectly well. You made it sound as if a lot of people would disagree with that point and I can't see how. I just don't see what Paulie occasionally DHing has to do with the "rotating DH" consisting of a lot of bad hitters.

Sorry I'm calling you that. But when you literally say that if we win it was automatically a well-managed game... you simply don't have any earthy idea what you are talking about. There's a screw loose SOMEWHERE...

True. But I'm not gonna agree with someone that's uneducated about something. What is "a hater?" Do I hate Ozzie? Maybe, but if I do it's for perfectly logical reasons. And you're wrong about finding any reason. My last post is a perfect example. I give credit where credit is due, but I'm not gonna give him more credit than he deserves (as greg does), and I'm not gonna say he knows what he;s doing as an in-game manager because he just DOESN'T, plain and simple. And again, a vast majority seem to agree with me. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see some of the more easy decisions he has that he f***s up.

How can I say he is an unfit manager??? Are you FOR REAL????? Feel free to actually watch a baseball game one of these days, bro. Do I really need to lay down every single example of idiotic managing that defies COMMON SENSE Ozzie makes on a regular basis to you??? Just because the team wins doesn't mean Ozzie made the right moves. That's 100% irrational. Look at this series. And this one was pretty lukewarm in comparison to many others. Disagreeing is one thing. Lacking any semblance of common sense is quite the other. For you to say Ozzie should be given credit for any win regardless of how he managed or how the Sox played... need I say more? Sorry, sir... but you just are very uneducated. Can I say that? I'm simply not answering any more of your post because the answers are in front of your face. I'm seriously going to get permanently banned if I have to continue this asinine discussion with you.

Everything I have said is PERFECTLY rational. Nothing is more rational than facts. Greg is flat out saying Ozzie deserves credit no matter how we win and is NEVER at fault if we lose... and I'M being irrational? Calling me irrational in the presence of greg is like calling Brad Pitt a dork in the presence of Steve Urkel.

Um... no one here complains when PAULIE is the DH; I know I sure as hell don't. It's when it's Kotsay, Jones or someone similar. What are you talking about? Am I missing something here?

I mean, I CAN give Ozzie some credit. It's very difficult to manage a team at these times where your bullpen is used up and your starter is too deep to be pitching... what can you do? It's not Ozzie's fault that we suck with RISP. It just seems that in the most SIMPLE of scenarios where Ozzie is at his leisure to make SIMPLE decisions... he f***s most of them up and quite often ends up in a grueling struggle to get a win or even a blown game we should have won. I see some of the flat out IDIOTIC decisions he makes and just has to assume he NEVER looks at a scouting report unless it has something to do with his manchild crush for that year (Erstad, Wise, Kotsay, etc.).

LOL.

Yeah, because we were lucky enough to play like absolute s*** and beat a team that did the same, Ozzie is a great manager for no actual reason and guys like me are stupid for wanting the guy fired when he clearly has no idea what he's doing? Yeah, that's "reality," huh? "Average" fans? You mean the kind that don't understand anything about baseball? Are you TRYING to make yourself look bad? With people like you, nothing that every goes wrong is Ozzie's fault, but everything that goes right is attributed to him even if he has nothing to do with it. Also, we're 16 games over barely in contention in an abysmal division. Hey, I love the fact we came back in the 9th, but the truth is we are HORRID with RISP and our manager is clueless in his in-game managing, it's just that simple. "Non-reality?" Giving the manager credit for everything but refusing to admit his incompetence on the most obvious of f***-ups? THAT'S "non-reality." To quote a specific film, "Nothing you just said comes close to forming a rational thought. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul." My God, greg... what can I even say about you? Almost ALL your posts are sig worthy.

I couldn't possibly disagree with this statement more.

I'm not for SURE, but I think, looking back, this could be Ozzie's WORST season managing. I just can't find it in myself to commend a guy who can't make the EASIEST decisions constantly and give him credit for much of the Sox's success. I CAN commend him on individual moves (which I sometimes do), but when it comes down to it, IMO a manager just has to sit back, let his players play and just take care of the simple strategic moves, and that's something that Ozzie consistently fails at, so I just can't see how he really deserves a good amount of credit overall. I mean, we've all seen some of the asinine things he's done (especially this year) where we are literally throwing our arms up in the air (I think fathom and I suffer from this the most, lol) and think to ourselves that anyone with a lick of baseball knowledge at ALL could have done that right, and I'm not talking about instinctive things (I actually let Ozzie off the hook more than some of you might think with this), but s*** like pitching to Morneau with a 1 run deficit with 2 outs and first base open? Not pulling Gavin when his count is 120+ and hanging every pitch? And these aren't even comparable to some of the dumb decisions he's made. This is one season where I actually feel if it wasn't for a good amount of bad decisions he's made this year, our year could be much different and for all we know we could be in 1st place. If you ran the mentality where you assume we deliver in the situations he screwed up (which realistically I do know you can't), we'd EASILY be in 1st place. Point is... Ozzie just sucks.

Okay, let me try again. How am I hyperbolizing? You said, QUOTE, "I'm sure they would if he was." That means you are saying if Ozzie was being an unfit manager (which he is), they would fire him. That defies common sense because that's making the assumption people will always make the right decision, and that's simply ignorant. Therefore, you either worded your post incorrectly or are misinformed, it's that simple. If it's against the rules to call someone ignorant, that blows my mind; it's a perfectly technical word to describe someone who is misinformed or unaware of something. So please give me a substitute for the word "ignorant" I can use if that's getting me in trouble. If someone's being ignorant about something, I'm going to say so. It's not an insult; it's a perfectly technical term. We are ALL ignorant about things in life; there's nothing wrong with that. The thing about not paying attention to ballgames is simply true. ALL YOU HAVE TO DO to see that Ozzie mismanages this team to a point of stupidity is watch games. I can't understand how anyone who pays attention can miss this stuff. And for the record, seemingly a vast majority of the board agrees with me, sir. So if your loyalty is NOT as I have analyzed it, please set me straight because why else would you deny Ozzie is an unfit manager when he CLEARLY is? Whatever I did wrong I apologize for, but you'll have to point out what that is because I don't see it. I'm generally frank with my posts and not sugar coat them; I prefer to be honest to get the point across. I don't do it to be insulting, I do it so my point can be made clearly and absolutely. I'm sorry if that's offending you. I'm taking your post literally. If I'm incorrect on some of these things, please correct me specifically on them because you've left your posts to be literally taken the way I have analyzed them.

No, that's a FACT. When a man CONSTANTLY screws up the easiest of strategic scenarios NUMEROUS time PER GAME, he's simply not a competent manager. Even a vast majority of posters here would be smart enough to yank a pitcher who's pitch count is 120+ and is hanging every pitch he's throwing in a current inning. I shouldn't need numerous examples. If you don't understand this, you aren't paying attention to many ballgames. He HASN'T... for years now. And what have we been saying? Blind loyalty is a killer. You make it sound as if every organization always makes every decision correctly. Saying "I'm pretty sure he would be gone if he didn't" is display of ignorance of astronomical proportions; it's naivety to the extreme. You're basically suggesting every organization always does the correct thing and makes no mistakes. If that's not your line of thinking, then you worded that post very incorrectly. Typical "I don't know how to make a counterpoint" response. Not saying I could be, but dammit I at least pay enough attention to statistics to know when a certain hitter/pitcher shouldn't face another pitcher/hitter. Ironically, the only time Ozzie seems to use this correctly is when Mark f***ing Kotsay is involved. I figured there had to be at least one of you still wandering around here.

You should do it more often. This is how superstitious I am.

STONE HIM!!! Common sense and attention to detail will tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that Ozzie Guillen has no clue how to manage a baseball team.

If it was possible I would use this as my sig forever more.

True. But the Sox look like a team just good enough to make the playoffs. Ozzie almost looks as though he's trying to prevent that from happening. Win or lose, there's simply NO denying Ozzie is f***ing clueless at this point... except when the stats favor Mark Kotsay.

Fixed.

That's 2 straight Buehrle starts that took over 3 hours... kinda interesting.

:sweep: :sweep: EAT s***, SAWX!!! GTFO!!! BEUHRLE!!! THORNTON!!! f***, EVERYONE ELSE WHO DID SOMETHING CUZ I CAN'T EVEN REMEMBER ANYMORE!!! :cheers