mr_genius

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/15/business...interstitial?hp nice

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle4535173.ece of course!

QUOTE (kapkomet @ Aug 14, 2008 -> 07:13 PM) Hmmm... so what did Poland do today? basically told Russia to f*** off

QUOTE (lostfan @ Aug 14, 2008 -> 06:11 PM) Yeah I saw that. How soon until I can hide in the women's locker room at my gym? haha. i'm not sure if mankind is ready to handle the vast powers of an invisibility suit.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Aug 14, 2008 -> 06:05 PM) I was worried about you for a second. I should call my buddies in Atlanta and see if they're ok, apparently the Russians have us beat in the invisible flying tank race. do you know what is crazy? invisible tanks might not be that far off... http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/science/08/11...k.ap/index.html

QUOTE (lostfan @ Aug 14, 2008 -> 04:59 PM) That link your head Well i certainly wouldn't put it past anyone citing 'yahoo answers' to be proof of something. Dailykos and huffington post are quoted often.

Uh CNN is reporting that Russia is claiming massive portions of the country and not giving it back. You can go with the 'yahoo answers' reporting, I'll go with CNN.

Uribe's defensive skills are so valuable. can play short, 2nd and 3rd at a high level

QUOTE (lostfan @ Aug 12, 2008 -> 07:37 AM) Is he the same guy that was on Morning Joe last week? Basically he was talking about veiled racism. Which is there, but he was stretching so far it was embarrassing and making me cringe. I've seen him on TV with his claims that anyone not voting Obama is a racist. CNN has also had some segments saying that the only reason the election is close is because of racists not voting Obama. Which is crazy, considering how the split the country usually seems to be when two white guys are running. But I think a lot of people knew the MSM media was going to do this, so it's not really a surprise.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 13, 2008 -> 04:33 PM) It's Bill Kristol and Fox News so take it with some sodium chloride, but I'll start a thread for this endorsement because if I put it in the catch all thread someone would just start a thread on it anyway. FOX news is as reliable news source as any other, even though you might not like the news they emphasize or their commentator shows.

QUOTE (Rex Kicka** @ Aug 12, 2008 -> 03:47 PM) So who wants to go to the GOP Convention this year? Not Republicans.... http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12476.html The juicy bits: That part on page two of the story is the best. Republicans don't want to go Minneapolis because it isn't New York or LA. I guess they only care about the middle of the country when they don't have to spend any time there. OMG I'M VOTING OBAMA NOW

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 09:21 PM) I agree with you on that. But here's the problem...if you're saying Georgia should be defended as a member of NATO even though it hasn't fully reached membership status, what other options do we have? Basically, your argument is that NATO is useless if it doesn't defend Georgia. It's not defending Georgia now. So what is NATO's use? I have no idea what NATO is useful for now. I guess we'll see how the NATO allies react to this and find out.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 08:57 PM) So...are you saying we should be using military force against Russia right now, yes or no? i don't think we are in a position to do anything with the military. we are already in 2 wars in the middle east. this is what the generals were telling GW when they say the military is 'stretched thin'.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 08:13 PM) It was being fast tracked by the Bush administration but it still hasn't happened yet, like you just said they don't have full membership. It's not the same as Russia attacking Germany or France. That would mean full-blown retaliation and a big mess. Germany and France aren't getting invaded. Really, if we don't defend Georgia in some way with NATO might as well be blown up as it is meaningless. Georgia was an ally who already was living up to their end of the bargain by helping with military actions. They already had signed treaties with NATO. They were going to be a member, Russia just invaded them before it was technically complete.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 07:31 PM) The dynamics of an invasion like that are completely different when you invade a country that has a defensive pact with multiple other countries. So if you attack a NATO country you get retaliation from the US, UK, France, Germany, etc (assuming they're not half-assing it like they're doing in Afghanistan). they have one with NATO. But I guess since they aren't full members yet we don't have an obligation to defend them.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 07:31 PM) Since when is Georgia a NATO country? They already voted to be members and would have been a full member in 2009. The have already signed treaties with NATO and were alligned allies since 2005. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_and_NATO

QUOTE (lostfan @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 03:04 PM) they're not going to just come out and attack a NATO country unprovoked, that would be craziness. They just did. It's a full on invasion.

QUOTE (KipWellsFan @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 07:12 PM) Perhaps they lack wisdom but there is definitely a rationale in the Russian regime reigniting the Cold War type atmosphere. That period of time when Russians were powerful, and scary is a source of pride for many Russians. Lets remember that Stalin is probably more popular than Gorbachev in Russia still today. Hence appearing powerful and frightening solidifies the regimes grip on power. The U.S., Canada and the NATO allies seem totally pooched by the way. I definitely agree with you here. If Russia takes back some of their former republics they will once again be seen as a scary superpower whom can impose it's will whenever it sees fit. They will basically be back on the world stage as a world governing force.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 05:58 PM) What I'm saying is I don't see them doing anything like that. If they did, they may as well just come out and declare war on the United States. Why would that be the case? We invaded Iraq to get a democratic government. Russia is using the same justifications for their invasion. The Georgian government was evil and needed to be toppled according to the Russians. This just goes to show the horrible precedent the Iraq war has set. I'm not blaming Bush for this (the invasion is %100 on the Russians), but I knew eventually some country was going to invade something and use the same reasons we did. Even if there isn't an Iraq war the invasion of Georgia still happens, but we might be able to react stronger if not for Iraq. I don't see what is going to stop Russia from taking back their old soviet republics. The UN sure isn't going to send in their 'keystone cops' peace keepers to get destroyed.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 05:54 PM) Let's take it back one step then. They don't conquer or station troops in Georgia's capital, but the war brings down the government and brings a pro-Russian government to power. And Russian troops reach and take control of those pipelines across the country we're so interested in, thus giving them total control of the Caspian energy supplies. That's a totally reasonable set of goals for the Russians in this conflict...remove a pro-Western, anti-Russian government and strengthen their energy controls. What do we do then? Yea, pretty much. The plan is probably to invade and have the government crumble then have the country ruled by Russian proxy. Basically telling these countries they need to elect leaders who will be under Russian control, or you get invaded.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 05:50 PM) Now, if Russia starts blatantly violating international law and takes over all these soverign countries again (simply on the grounds that they want to) I think the international community would probably consider that an open act of war. Russia's making a strategic move here that looks bold, but I don't think they're crazy. They didn't like the Cold War any more than we did. They are blatantly invading one right now. How many would be too many? Is there a threshold you would be Ok with, such as 'well, let them have 3 countries'.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 12:16 PM) So, here's my question in reply...what can we do? We've already done one anti-Russian act in helping the Georgians extract their troops from one conflict and move them to the one near their home. What further steps should we take? Economic actions against Russia? Who's going to be up for that in this energy price environment, when their biggest product right now is energy exports? What diplomatic leverage do we have over the Russians when we need their help to try to deal with Iran already? Beyond that there's the direct military assistance options...and do we really want to be pushing that? When you say we need to "help this country out", the motivation is understandable...but what exactly are our options? Options are limited, as I think the Iraq war has hurt our ability to build a coalition to sanction Russia. If the US is going to push for these countries to back US policy, we need to be able to defend them if they join us and Russia starts bombing the crap out of them. Right now I think the only thing we can really do is give these countries a means to defend themselves by suppling them with weapons. That, or just basically concede these countries to Russia. It is a really tricky situation as I wouldn't want to get into a conflict with Russia again. But what should the US do if Russia just invades all these former soviet Republics and claims them as theirs?

haha it looks like Edwards probably violated federal tax laws and campaign finance rules with his 'hush' money he gave to his mistress.

I've decided to flip flop on this. We need to help this country out. They are a pretty good ally and have even sent 2,000 troops to help in iraq.